Advice for "first" cycle
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Raphael3636
Well-known member
Well for your first cycle with oils you need to keep it simple man to see how you respond. Also get baseline bloodwork before you pin anything. Anyways Test C or E @400-500mg week is perfect for a first run with oils. You can split that up into 2 pins a week.
rosegopher
Member
You can and should be using the minimum amount of gear as you can get away with. You should be working with the minimum effective dose, you could start with as little as 200mg of Testosterone and be perfectly fine and achieve your goals of ‘‘cutting.’’ Cutting is going to be more about your calorie deficit than the compounds, necessarily. If your calories are cut but you are getting in sufficient protein within the context of that deficit, even a low to moderate dose of Test will allow you to gain muscle and strength as you’re still early on in your enhanced career.
Cutting compounds often include, as far as injectables go, drugs like Masteron and Winstrol, and Tren of course - but all these three can nuke your hairline(potentially), some are DHT derivatives. Some might consider Primobolan as a cutting drug, but it’s also a DHT derivative and can nuke your hairline as well. Winstrol will nuke your lipid profile, Masteron is not really necessarily powerful enough outside of it’s use as a ‘‘hardening’’ agent and is often ran at somewhat higher doses like 600mg+ for that effect, and so in the context of your ‘‘first’’ cycle this would probably not be a wise or useful option, although Masteron is considered somewhat mild, and for a first cycle you may be fine with only a couple hundred mg of it - most of those with experience will probably agree that masteron is best used when you’re already lean and want to take your leanness to that freaky shredded vascular look, thus the word ‘‘hardening.’’ If you’re ‘‘cutting’’ a lot of excess weight - you won’t ‘‘notice’’ Masteron, outside of whatever muscle you gain and fat you lose - Mast is most ‘‘noticeable’’ when used as a kind of ‘‘finishing’’ compound. Tren is the harshest anabolic steroid and is of no use to you in your first cycle. Winstrol is a painful injection oftentimes, and has the most risk for infections as it’s water based, terrible for your lipid profile(potentially, everyone is different.) So of these ‘‘cutting’’ compounds it comes back to Testosterone.
‘‘Test is best’’ - it’s the most natural thing your body can tolerate. Test can be used for cutting as well as bulking, as can all the steroids - which brings me to the stereotypical ‘‘bulking’’ compounds like Deca and Equipoise, these compounds can be used for ‘‘cutting’’ but have aromatization and water retention (all the drugs including test will retain some water) issues and so that’s what leads them to be considered ‘‘bulking’’ compounds, they also have their own various negative side effects. But technically could still be used as ‘‘cutting’’ agents.
Test, at something as low as 200mg is going to work for you, and present you with your base moving forward. After your cycle of 200mg test, you can then increase that dosage to something as little as 250mg, and from there you are now learning what the ‘‘minimum effective dose’’ actually is. From there you will know what caused any side effects, you can maintain your 200mg dose and add in another compound at a low dose, again searching for the lowest effective dose with said new compound, and if you develop side effects you can now pinpoint and eliminate that compound, or dose increase, from your cycle or any plans for future cycles. This should be your framework for some sense of ‘‘responsible’’ AAS use. You want to maximize your gains at the lowest effective dose rather than blow your load, so to speak, by blasting high dosages that will require even higher dosages to maintain going forward, thus leading to even more potential side effects in the future.
All that being said, the least harsh injectable(outside of test) is Primobolan, so if you’re going to add a compound to Test, it should be Primo, as those other compounds are very harsh and should probably only be added after Primo has achieved it’s results or given you side effects, etc. Masteron is probably the next least harsh compound, and so that should probably be your next option. However, all of them are still Anabolic Androgenic Steroids that will promote nitrogen retention and build muscle mass. I see people mentioned Anavar, something like low to moderate Test for 12 weeks, with the final 4-8 weeks with Anavar is probably suitable for your goals of ‘‘cutting.’’
You should also be setting up blood tests prior to cycle to determine your baseline hormone levels, along with blood tests during the cycle to gauge what the compounds you’re using are doing to your blood levels as well as blood tests after your cycle to gauge your recovery after PCT. As for PCT there are various theories and there’s no real answer - but a safe bet is to stick to the basics of some kind of HCG blast followed by at least Nolvadex and probably Clomid as well. You will hear various ranges of how much HCG suggested, just make sure your within that range, and make sure you start this long enough after your compounds have left your system - i.e. not necessarily right after a long ester Test injection. Same with Nolva and Clomid suggested dosages/timings - make sure you’re somewhere within the range of the various suggestions and you should be fine.
steroidcalc (dot) com -
^—This is a calculator that lets you get a sense of your esters and the timings of your injections, for stable blood levels more injections will be better, but obviously bros have gotten away with once a week injections for enanthate and felt fine and great, bi weekly is a reasonable compromise. You will have to research yourself and judge how you respond on an individual level though. Anyways …
Best of luck, Cadet.
Cutting compounds often include, as far as injectables go, drugs like Masteron and Winstrol, and Tren of course - but all these three can nuke your hairline(potentially), some are DHT derivatives. Some might consider Primobolan as a cutting drug, but it’s also a DHT derivative and can nuke your hairline as well. Winstrol will nuke your lipid profile, Masteron is not really necessarily powerful enough outside of it’s use as a ‘‘hardening’’ agent and is often ran at somewhat higher doses like 600mg+ for that effect, and so in the context of your ‘‘first’’ cycle this would probably not be a wise or useful option, although Masteron is considered somewhat mild, and for a first cycle you may be fine with only a couple hundred mg of it - most of those with experience will probably agree that masteron is best used when you’re already lean and want to take your leanness to that freaky shredded vascular look, thus the word ‘‘hardening.’’ If you’re ‘‘cutting’’ a lot of excess weight - you won’t ‘‘notice’’ Masteron, outside of whatever muscle you gain and fat you lose - Mast is most ‘‘noticeable’’ when used as a kind of ‘‘finishing’’ compound. Tren is the harshest anabolic steroid and is of no use to you in your first cycle. Winstrol is a painful injection oftentimes, and has the most risk for infections as it’s water based, terrible for your lipid profile(potentially, everyone is different.) So of these ‘‘cutting’’ compounds it comes back to Testosterone.
‘‘Test is best’’ - it’s the most natural thing your body can tolerate. Test can be used for cutting as well as bulking, as can all the steroids - which brings me to the stereotypical ‘‘bulking’’ compounds like Deca and Equipoise, these compounds can be used for ‘‘cutting’’ but have aromatization and water retention (all the drugs including test will retain some water) issues and so that’s what leads them to be considered ‘‘bulking’’ compounds, they also have their own various negative side effects. But technically could still be used as ‘‘cutting’’ agents.
Test, at something as low as 200mg is going to work for you, and present you with your base moving forward. After your cycle of 200mg test, you can then increase that dosage to something as little as 250mg, and from there you are now learning what the ‘‘minimum effective dose’’ actually is. From there you will know what caused any side effects, you can maintain your 200mg dose and add in another compound at a low dose, again searching for the lowest effective dose with said new compound, and if you develop side effects you can now pinpoint and eliminate that compound, or dose increase, from your cycle or any plans for future cycles. This should be your framework for some sense of ‘‘responsible’’ AAS use. You want to maximize your gains at the lowest effective dose rather than blow your load, so to speak, by blasting high dosages that will require even higher dosages to maintain going forward, thus leading to even more potential side effects in the future.
All that being said, the least harsh injectable(outside of test) is Primobolan, so if you’re going to add a compound to Test, it should be Primo, as those other compounds are very harsh and should probably only be added after Primo has achieved it’s results or given you side effects, etc. Masteron is probably the next least harsh compound, and so that should probably be your next option. However, all of them are still Anabolic Androgenic Steroids that will promote nitrogen retention and build muscle mass. I see people mentioned Anavar, something like low to moderate Test for 12 weeks, with the final 4-8 weeks with Anavar is probably suitable for your goals of ‘‘cutting.’’
You should also be setting up blood tests prior to cycle to determine your baseline hormone levels, along with blood tests during the cycle to gauge what the compounds you’re using are doing to your blood levels as well as blood tests after your cycle to gauge your recovery after PCT. As for PCT there are various theories and there’s no real answer - but a safe bet is to stick to the basics of some kind of HCG blast followed by at least Nolvadex and probably Clomid as well. You will hear various ranges of how much HCG suggested, just make sure your within that range, and make sure you start this long enough after your compounds have left your system - i.e. not necessarily right after a long ester Test injection. Same with Nolva and Clomid suggested dosages/timings - make sure you’re somewhere within the range of the various suggestions and you should be fine.
steroidcalc (dot) com -
^—This is a calculator that lets you get a sense of your esters and the timings of your injections, for stable blood levels more injections will be better, but obviously bros have gotten away with once a week injections for enanthate and felt fine and great, bi weekly is a reasonable compromise. You will have to research yourself and judge how you respond on an individual level though. Anyways …
Best of luck, Cadet.
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Thanks for all the info, not completely new just trying to be safe as possible starting this! Also I should have put more info down. I’m 6’4 sitting at 300lbs around 27% bf wanting to get back around sub 15%bf/ 230-240lbs range, still workout close to daily just let my diet go to shit for about a year. Lastly, outside of getting a baseline would it be a good idea to use a use a higher dose or is that a bad idea/bad return?
Raphael3636
Well-known member
I can’t agree with you on this, you will not and can not grow on a calorie deficit. In order to grow muscle and gain weight you need to be in a calorie surplus. Now a low to moderate dose of test will help you maintain the muscle you already aquired in the midst of a deficit. When your in a deficit and cutting weight and water your muscles will be more pronounced giving you the illusion of growth.rosegopher said:
Good post by the way and welcome to UGM , throw up an introduction to the community when you get a chance bro.
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Raphael3636
Well-known member
Personally I would bring your BF% down before running AAS.
rosegopher
Member
Yea for a longtime lifter or longtime gear user you won’t gain muscle of course but if it’s your ‘‘first’’ cycle you will, or can, gain muscle while cutting. Shit you can do this while natural, let alone enhanced. Gear alone will build muscle, regardless of what else you do. This doesn’t apply to longtime gear users or advanced lifters, but this post is for a person who is doing their ‘‘first’’(sic) cycle and is trying to ‘‘cut’’ - indicating they are most likely still a beginner/novice/intermediate lifter and have an excess amount of fat to lose, meaning that they may possibly recomp while losing fat and gain strength and size on their cut, even with a low dose of gear.
Here’s a natural power lifter who gained strength while doing an essentially zero carb, extreme crash style diet where lean protein and fibrous carbs were the only part of the diet. The diet calls for something as low as 400-800 calories a day, more accurately probably 800-1200 a day. This natural lifter gained strength on a radically low calorie, high deficit, diet. He had to cut his volume way back but still gained strength, and thus we can infer ‘‘size’’ as ‘‘size’’ comes from progressive tension overload(more weight on the bar). powerliftingtowin (dot) com/rapid-fatloss-handbook-before-and-after-results-review/ - Just an example that comes to mind. This is probably an intermediate to advanced natural lifter, our topic at hand though is probably not even as advanced as the subject of this diet. We’re not talking about Jay Cutler here or something at this point, we’re talking about a first cycle.
You see it in some of the recommendations provided to this post creator - several compounds for a simple ‘‘first’’ ‘‘cut’’ cycle - it’s not needed. And then if you also apply this context of an advanced lifter and a longtime gear user, you will think you can’t gain strength and size on a deficit.
I understand your point though bro, and for the most part is correct of course. I also just think there is a massive over estimation of how much gear is needed, broadly speaking in the community, how high of doses are needed in general, let alone for first timers etc etc. You can build an INCREDIBLE physique on REAL trt dosages of gear for example, a lot of bros will disagree though.
Here’s a natural power lifter who gained strength while doing an essentially zero carb, extreme crash style diet where lean protein and fibrous carbs were the only part of the diet. The diet calls for something as low as 400-800 calories a day, more accurately probably 800-1200 a day. This natural lifter gained strength on a radically low calorie, high deficit, diet. He had to cut his volume way back but still gained strength, and thus we can infer ‘‘size’’ as ‘‘size’’ comes from progressive tension overload(more weight on the bar). powerliftingtowin (dot) com/rapid-fatloss-handbook-before-and-after-results-review/ - Just an example that comes to mind. This is probably an intermediate to advanced natural lifter, our topic at hand though is probably not even as advanced as the subject of this diet. We’re not talking about Jay Cutler here or something at this point, we’re talking about a first cycle.
You see it in some of the recommendations provided to this post creator - several compounds for a simple ‘‘first’’ ‘‘cut’’ cycle - it’s not needed. And then if you also apply this context of an advanced lifter and a longtime gear user, you will think you can’t gain strength and size on a deficit.
I understand your point though bro, and for the most part is correct of course. I also just think there is a massive over estimation of how much gear is needed, broadly speaking in the community, how high of doses are needed in general, let alone for first timers etc etc. You can build an INCREDIBLE physique on REAL trt dosages of gear for example, a lot of bros will disagree though.
Raphael3636
Well-known member
Good man, cutting weight and maintaining muscle is the holy Grail brotha. Recomp at its best. If you stay with a strict diet, cardio, and low dose AAS you will hit your goals in no time. By the way what is your goal? Where do you want to see yourself in say 6 months?
Raphael3636
Well-known member
I totally agree with you on the less is more aspect. When I first started out over a decade ago I remember blasts with over a gram of Tren. So unnecessary. Now that I’m older and wiser I get better results from low dosages and a controlled diet.