Bigmurph6
Banned
This is information and comparisons that im going to collect from Google but I will also share cycle information and how they help in the end.
Banned
The place to almost always start to go down the rabbit hole
pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Are hMG and hCG Medications Right For You?
When a doctor is trying to decide upon the best fertility treatment for one of his patients, he may turn to one of the fertility drugs that is out on the market. And, depending upon the hormonal makeup of his patient, he may decide to turn to human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) and Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG).
That is a rather large name for a pretty complicated medication. But, there are a few name brands-- Bravelle, Humegon, Metrodin, Pergonal, and Repronex are the brand names for hMG. Brand names for hCG include Pregnyl and Profasi.
hCG is simply a synthetic combination of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH). But, the basic description of hMG doesn’t sound too appealing. hMG contains FSH and LH like other fertility drugs. But, there is one major difference. This drug gets its FSH and LH from the urine from postmenopausal women.
Yes, of course it is purified and treated and sanitized and everything else. So, no worries there. But that’s where it comes from.
FSH and LH are both hormones that are necessary for ovulation. Some women do not have the right balance of these two hormones; therefore, fertility drugs like hMG and hCG can help them become ovulate and, hopefully, become pregnant.
hMG and hCG are not oral medications—they are injectables. A dosage of hMG needs to be injected each day for 12 days (or whatever is prescribed, but 12 days is the average). This is done during the early part of the cycle, when a woman is not ovulating, to help mature the follicles. Then, a dose of hCG is given to stimulate ovulation.
Because this is a combination of two fertility drugs that work together, it is necessary for a doctor to continually monitor any woman taking these drugs. The first medication, hMG, is taken to mature the egg follicles. Ultrasounds or blood tests need to be completed after each series of 12 shots of the hMG to make sure that the egg follicles have sufficiently matured before the hCG shot is given. This is because if the hCG shot is given when the egg follicles are not quite matured, the ovulation that occurs as a result of the hCG shot will not be successful.
This combination of fertility drugs does work rather well for some women. It consistently stimulates ovulation, and 60% of women become pregnant. But, unfortunately, 35% of these pregnancies end in miscarriage. This is higher than the risk of miscarriage in the regular population.
There are other side effects for women using these fertility drugs. Some women report ovarian enlargement. Other side effects include headache and abdominal pain.
There is a slight risk among women using hMG and hCG in developing Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS). This condition is quite rare, but patients may need to stop taking these fertility drugs.
As with other fertility drugs, there is an increased chance of having multiples when taking hMG and hCG. Since multiples pregnancies are considered high-risk for any woman, this may be an important factor when deciding to take these medications.
Now, although these two fertility drugs are injectables, that does not mean that they have to be given at the doctor’s office. Women can be taught to give themselves daily injections of these medications, much like how diabetics sometimes give themselves daily injections of insulin. Of course, as stated above, the hCG shot cannot be given until a blood test or ultrasound is performed; however, there is no need for a woman to go into the doctor’s office each day for the 12 daily shots.
hMG and hCG will not be the fertility drugs of choice for every woman. But, they have helped countless women realize their dreams of having a baby, so they are the right choice for some women experiencing infertility. A woman’s doctor will be able to advise her about her best options for infertility treatment.
Interesting information about use for fertility lets move towards pct and on cycle use
Excellent information written by Jceasar369 we wish you would join us at ugmuscle brother.
I Banned can’t backup any of this information I didn’t write this part.
PCT, or Post cycle therapy, seems to follow a fairly standard convention amongst us steroid users. For cycles that we have deemed shorter, Nolva 40/40/20/20 seems to suffice. For mid-length cycles, we tend to add clomid 50/50/25/25 to the nolva and call it a day. For the long cycles we add HCG into the cycle and/or run it high dose towards the end of the cycle before the clomid and nolva PCT. Obviously you are sitting there thinking “yea great I’ve read the wiki before too bro”. Well I am here to explore how or why these dosages came to be, and what the FDA recommends for treating hypogonadism in males. Ever since I started researching steroids and the different ancillaries/ PCT meds, one of the biggest things that caught my eye was the HUMONGOUS dosages of nolva and clomid used. Which lead me to ask several important questions:
Where do these dosages come from? Anecdotal reviews from users? Or is it just standard accepted convention? And what about fertility? Can you conceive on cycle? Can you regain fertility after BnC?
First we will look into the nolvadex, or tamoxifen dosage. The only FDA indicated reason a male would take tamoxifen is for gyno, and the recommended dosage is 10-20 mg ED. The FDA does however acknowledge an off label use for tamoxifen in males for infertility due to oligospermia, or low sperm count in ejaculate. The FDA even suggests that evidence favors efficacy. Ok great, at least know I have an idea where taking tamoxifen comes from. Standard dosages for women with breast cancer range from 10-20 mg tamoxifen ED, with up to 40 mg being the absolute max and high dose.
I recommend no one go over 40 mg in one day
It is just not necessary, and will truly only cause more chances of side effects with no clinically significant or measurable improvement in your PCT being successful. I even believe 40 mg to be a high dose that is not needed. This is the reason that tamoxifen gets such a bad reputation; because we take it in such high dosages that our chances of side effects increases drastically.
Now we need to also consider the half life problem with tamoxifen. The half life varies from about 5-7 days, with most people falling closer to the 7 day mark. That means this drug takes a hell of a long time to reach peak blood levels. 5 weeks basically. Now the idea of frontloading the tamoxifen seems to come to mind to reach blood levels faster. However there is a large flaw in this plan. One part of the flaw is that in this case you will most likely just have worse side effects at the higher dosage, and make no improvement in your PCT. The other tremendous problem is that the active metabolite of tamoxifen, N-desmethyl tamoxifen (the actual drug metabolite you want in your body to act as a SERM and restart your testicles) has a half life of 14 days. So by frontloading the non-active tamoxifen, you still really aren’t giving your body much more of the active metabolite any faster.
My recommendation: 20 mg tamoxifen ED for a longer time period. Why 4 weeks? Your cycle was 16. Try 6-8 weeks on 20 mg ED tamoxifen. This should be just as effective, if not more effective, at restarting your testicular testosterone production than the standard 40/40/20/20 with less chances of the pretty gnarly side effects that tamoxifen can bring with it.
Onto clomid, or clomiphene. The FDA actually recommends clomid for treatment of male hypogonadism, so we are already off to a better start with clomid here at least in my mind. Since clomid is actually indicated for restarting our testicular production, we get an excellent study conducted on dosing clomid for our PCT purposes: Shibboleth Authentication Request
According to that study, and thus recommended by the FDA, clomid for hypogonadism should be run at 25 mg EOD – 25 mg ED, or 50 mg EOD. Now this begs to differ with our standard 50/50/25/25 regimen, as 50 mg ED is AGAIN a drastically high and completely unnecessary dose. Again, the side effects of clomid can be quite bothersome and bad. Why risk vision changes or loss running 50 mg ED when you could just do 25 mg ED or 50 mg EOD and get the exact same benefits without the side effects?
My recommendation: 25 mg clomid ED for 6-8 weeks, or longer if you need it to recover test levels. The only way to know you have recovered is with blood work. Yes you may definitely feel better, but get bloods. These are your nuts were talking about here. Alternatively 50 mg clomid EOD is also perfectly fine and acceptable. It just may be harder to keep up with this dosing regimen, whereas 25 mg ED is easy: one pill every day in the morning and you’re set. Easy to remember.
Torem
Due to requests, I am adding toremifene in! Torem is a newer and less studied SERM than nolva or clomid, but quite often compared to them as being better and having less side effects. Best of both worlds! Unfortunately there are no large trial studies with torem yet as it is not FDA indicated for male hypogonadism. Nor are there any studies directly comparing torem to clomid. There is however a study comparing nolva to torem, which found that torem is equal in efficacy to nolva in treating breast cancer in women, and torem actually decreased bone mineral density MORE than nolva did. Here is the study Shibboleth Authentication Request just hit download PDF
Torem also has a half life of 5 days, with an active metabolite N-desmethyltoremifene having a longer half life at 6 days. This is better than the case with nolva where the active metabolite has a half life of 14 days.
Choosing between nolva or torem: Torem is known to carry less side effects with it. If you know you do not like nolva due to having side effects from it, torem may be for you. Both are efficacious and will work well. If you can only get nolva pharmacy grade and RC torem, I HIGHLY recommend the pharmacy grade choice always. At least with pharmacy grade you know what you are buying. Why roll the dice with RC drugs that you are using to try to start your nuts up? Just not worth the risk to me.
My recommendation: 60 mg torem ED for 6-8 weeks after your cycle. 60 mg is the FDA recommended dosage, and they found no benefit upon doubling the dose in women with breast cancer. Again, I believe that doubling the dosage would pretty much do almost nothing for your PCT recovery going well besides give you more chances of side effects. Of course longer cycles may require longer PCT.
My recommendation: 500 to 1000 units IM 3 times weekly for 3 weeks followed by 500 to 1000 units IM 2 times weekly for 3 weeks. Wait 4 days, and then PCT. If you want to time this for the end of a test E cycle, you would start it 4 weeks before your last test E injection, that way you run the full 6 weeks in alignment with the 2 week off period between test E and PCT. You’re welcome
This is the actual FDA indicated and recommend dosage for treatment of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males. Boom. We have hit the nail on the head here with this one lucky drug, as that crazy hypo mumbo jumo hypogonadism is pretty much exactly what we are experiencing when we are trying to PCT when being shut down from exogenous testosterone administration. You can also run HCG at the standard 250 IU 2-3x per week (heck you can even double that dosage to 500 IU 2-3x per week if you want) throughout your cycle to make PCT just as easy and more efficicent.
Fertility : If you want to maintain fertility as best you can, running HCG and HMG (look right below) throughout your cycles or BnC is, in my opinion, your best bet. I am not here to argue with anyone, just making a recommendation here. HCG is cheap, easily accessible (if we are acquiring gear, I am sure we have no trouble acquiring HCG), and really does not have too many negative side effects. There is thought of building tolerance to it, sadly this will never really be studied because who is going to study steroid users trying to PCT with HCG? If you are concerned with tolerance, you can choose to alternate running HCG on the BnC. So either during blasts, or during cruises, and then off for the other part.
Speaking of fertility, remember how HCG is an LH analogue? Well there is another big player in fertility in men, and that is FSH, or follicle stimulating hormone. Again, FSH analogue drugs are very complex, even more complex than LH analogues and are discussed here in our sub even LESS than HCG. Now this may be because only the LH is needed in most cases to PCT successfully, or be due to the fact that the FSH analogues are actually a bit tougher to acquire than HCG. There are a few different FSH analogue drugs, but I will be looking at HMG or human menopausal gonadotropin.
HMG is considered a menotropin. Another menotropin you could substitute for HMG is urofollitropin. If you want to make your PCT even easier or more successful and/or are worried about fertility, then using HMG may be beneficial to you. In most cases HMG or an FSH analogue will not be needed to successfully PCT, even after a long cycle, but alas everyone is different and some may actually need both the LH and FSH analogues to fully kickstart those testicles. LUCKILY for us again, HMG is FDA indicated for “assisted reproductive technology” in women who have previously received pituitary suppression, or in our case PCT. Now I will not get into explaining the HPTA (you can google and read Wikipedia for that yourself) but this is good news for us, as our pituitaries have been suppressed due to exogenous testosterone administration. HMG just like HCG is a well tolerated drug, so adding it in to your PCT plans will likely only help PCT go faster and smoother, and may even help with regaining fertility quicker. It may be more expensive than HCG, but the course of it is only 12 days.
My dose recommendation: 225 IU IM initial dose daily for 12 days maximum AND THEN AFTERWARDS run HCG. If after a few days you are tolerating the 225 IU well, you can consider running UP TO 450 IU injected IM every day for the remainder of the 12 days. This higher dose is likely not needed, but if you find your PCT unsuccessful or your nuts not seeming to be regaining function after a few days on the 225 IU, you can CONSIDER increasing to 300 IU, or any dose up to 450 IU per day maximum. These are the FDA recommendations and dosages for HMG or urofollitropin.
Info from Banned triptorelin does work we ran a pct experiment along time ago and the pharma grade product worked even better but triptorelin is also used medically for chemical castration so like is said in this write up its measured in micrograms if your not familiar with micrograms think about fetanyl its measured in micrograms that’s why everyone is dying its extremely hard to get micrograms right. So if its wrong you might be chemically castrated but if its real and it is dosed right it works exceptionally well proven by blood work experiment with multiple individuals and factors.
Banned
Finally we have pretty much covered all of our bases. However there is one drug that has not been covered yet, and here now it rears its devilish head. Triptorelin. Specifically triptorelin acetate. Triptorelin is used for palliative prostate advanced stage cancer treatment. Yikes. One of the biggest problems with triptorelin is that all the pharmacy grade drugs of triptorelin are long acting or depots with long esters attached to the triptorelin molecule. Almost basically like nandrolone decanoate. So what right? The long acting ester of triptorelin will chemically castrate you if you inject too much of it intramuscularly. Yea, this pretty much does the exact opposite of PCT. The big problem of the pharma grade long esters of triptorelin is that they are designed specifically to be used in cataclysmic levels which would probably feel like dipping your nuts into an active volcano. There is just no way even if you got your hands on the low dose 3.75 mg triptorelin depot that you could accurately dose yourself 100 mcg. Yes, 100 mcg is the maximum dose you can take of triptorelin ACETATE (sonic the hedgehog ester) without highly risking chemical castration annihilation. Hence your only option if you go the triptorelin ace route is to get it from a research chemical company. Even after searching this sub and a few other places thoroughly, I could not find much info or even really any anecdotal reviews or blood work from gear users who tried triptorelin for PCT. Now there is a great study in our wiki http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00503-0/fulltext but alas it is a case report where N=1 or only 1 test patient. However the results were incredible.
If you go the triptorelin route, it is highly advised that you only do this if you plan to end a long BnC and/or be done with steroids forever. Think of this as the ultimate PCT. If you are coming off several years of BnC, triptorelin should work for you. However you should not use it to PCT off the BnC only to hop back on gear a few months later. Save this as your end all be all. Or accept TRT for life, which I know many here are completely fine with. Just if you are not fine with this, then reserve triptorelin ace as the final effort.
My recommendation: RC triptorelin acetate (you better trust your source on this one) 100 mcg (yes micrograms) injected IM once. Then a standard or low dose SERM like nolva 20/20/10/10 or clomid 25/25/25EOD/25EOD. This is used to aid in PCT recovery as well as prevent estrogen rebound that occurs from triptorelin. You could also consider using an AI, although I don’t think it will really be necessary while on the SERM. If you do opt for an AI as well, just be sure to take it very low dose, as any standard AI protocol we are used to like 12.5 mg asin EOD will pretty much be guaranteed to crash your estro and make your dick dead.
!!!@!@!!!1212!!!- If anyone has anecdotal or blood work with using triptorelin, I am sure many of us would love to see you post it and your experience with it. Please share!
I will reach out to Jceasar369 and tell you were to find the blood work and experiment
Banned
This is just the beginning have to do something else will be back to finish this is just the first chapter
Banned
Banned
The place to almost always start to go down the rabbit hole
Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin
Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin | C9H18O | CID 21888462 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more.
pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Are hMG and hCG Medications Right For You?
When a doctor is trying to decide upon the best fertility treatment for one of his patients, he may turn to one of the fertility drugs that is out on the market. And, depending upon the hormonal makeup of his patient, he may decide to turn to human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) and Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG).
That is a rather large name for a pretty complicated medication. But, there are a few name brands-- Bravelle, Humegon, Metrodin, Pergonal, and Repronex are the brand names for hMG. Brand names for hCG include Pregnyl and Profasi.
hCG is simply a synthetic combination of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH). But, the basic description of hMG doesn’t sound too appealing. hMG contains FSH and LH like other fertility drugs. But, there is one major difference. This drug gets its FSH and LH from the urine from postmenopausal women.
Yes, of course it is purified and treated and sanitized and everything else. So, no worries there. But that’s where it comes from.
FSH and LH are both hormones that are necessary for ovulation. Some women do not have the right balance of these two hormones; therefore, fertility drugs like hMG and hCG can help them become ovulate and, hopefully, become pregnant.
hMG and hCG are not oral medications—they are injectables. A dosage of hMG needs to be injected each day for 12 days (or whatever is prescribed, but 12 days is the average). This is done during the early part of the cycle, when a woman is not ovulating, to help mature the follicles. Then, a dose of hCG is given to stimulate ovulation.
Because this is a combination of two fertility drugs that work together, it is necessary for a doctor to continually monitor any woman taking these drugs. The first medication, hMG, is taken to mature the egg follicles. Ultrasounds or blood tests need to be completed after each series of 12 shots of the hMG to make sure that the egg follicles have sufficiently matured before the hCG shot is given. This is because if the hCG shot is given when the egg follicles are not quite matured, the ovulation that occurs as a result of the hCG shot will not be successful.
This combination of fertility drugs does work rather well for some women. It consistently stimulates ovulation, and 60% of women become pregnant. But, unfortunately, 35% of these pregnancies end in miscarriage. This is higher than the risk of miscarriage in the regular population.
There are other side effects for women using these fertility drugs. Some women report ovarian enlargement. Other side effects include headache and abdominal pain.
There is a slight risk among women using hMG and hCG in developing Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS). This condition is quite rare, but patients may need to stop taking these fertility drugs.
As with other fertility drugs, there is an increased chance of having multiples when taking hMG and hCG. Since multiples pregnancies are considered high-risk for any woman, this may be an important factor when deciding to take these medications.
Now, although these two fertility drugs are injectables, that does not mean that they have to be given at the doctor’s office. Women can be taught to give themselves daily injections of these medications, much like how diabetics sometimes give themselves daily injections of insulin. Of course, as stated above, the hCG shot cannot be given until a blood test or ultrasound is performed; however, there is no need for a woman to go into the doctor’s office each day for the 12 daily shots.
hMG and hCG will not be the fertility drugs of choice for every woman. But, they have helped countless women realize their dreams of having a baby, so they are the right choice for some women experiencing infertility. A woman’s doctor will be able to advise her about her best options for infertility treatment.
Interesting information about use for fertility lets move towards pct and on cycle use
Excellent information written by Jceasar369 we wish you would join us at ugmuscle brother.
I Banned can’t backup any of this information I didn’t write this part.
PCT, or Post cycle therapy, seems to follow a fairly standard convention amongst us steroid users. For cycles that we have deemed shorter, Nolva 40/40/20/20 seems to suffice. For mid-length cycles, we tend to add clomid 50/50/25/25 to the nolva and call it a day. For the long cycles we add HCG into the cycle and/or run it high dose towards the end of the cycle before the clomid and nolva PCT. Obviously you are sitting there thinking “yea great I’ve read the wiki before too bro”. Well I am here to explore how or why these dosages came to be, and what the FDA recommends for treating hypogonadism in males. Ever since I started researching steroids and the different ancillaries/ PCT meds, one of the biggest things that caught my eye was the HUMONGOUS dosages of nolva and clomid used. Which lead me to ask several important questions:
Where do these dosages come from? Anecdotal reviews from users? Or is it just standard accepted convention? And what about fertility? Can you conceive on cycle? Can you regain fertility after BnC?
First we will look into the nolvadex, or tamoxifen dosage. The only FDA indicated reason a male would take tamoxifen is for gyno, and the recommended dosage is 10-20 mg ED. The FDA does however acknowledge an off label use for tamoxifen in males for infertility due to oligospermia, or low sperm count in ejaculate. The FDA even suggests that evidence favors efficacy. Ok great, at least know I have an idea where taking tamoxifen comes from. Standard dosages for women with breast cancer range from 10-20 mg tamoxifen ED, with up to 40 mg being the absolute max and high dose.
I recommend no one go over 40 mg in one day
It is just not necessary, and will truly only cause more chances of side effects with no clinically significant or measurable improvement in your PCT being successful. I even believe 40 mg to be a high dose that is not needed. This is the reason that tamoxifen gets such a bad reputation; because we take it in such high dosages that our chances of side effects increases drastically.
Now we need to also consider the half life problem with tamoxifen. The half life varies from about 5-7 days, with most people falling closer to the 7 day mark. That means this drug takes a hell of a long time to reach peak blood levels. 5 weeks basically. Now the idea of frontloading the tamoxifen seems to come to mind to reach blood levels faster. However there is a large flaw in this plan. One part of the flaw is that in this case you will most likely just have worse side effects at the higher dosage, and make no improvement in your PCT. The other tremendous problem is that the active metabolite of tamoxifen, N-desmethyl tamoxifen (the actual drug metabolite you want in your body to act as a SERM and restart your testicles) has a half life of 14 days. So by frontloading the non-active tamoxifen, you still really aren’t giving your body much more of the active metabolite any faster.
My recommendation: 20 mg tamoxifen ED for a longer time period. Why 4 weeks? Your cycle was 16. Try 6-8 weeks on 20 mg ED tamoxifen. This should be just as effective, if not more effective, at restarting your testicular testosterone production than the standard 40/40/20/20 with less chances of the pretty gnarly side effects that tamoxifen can bring with it.
Onto clomid, or clomiphene. The FDA actually recommends clomid for treatment of male hypogonadism, so we are already off to a better start with clomid here at least in my mind. Since clomid is actually indicated for restarting our testicular production, we get an excellent study conducted on dosing clomid for our PCT purposes: Shibboleth Authentication Request
According to that study, and thus recommended by the FDA, clomid for hypogonadism should be run at 25 mg EOD – 25 mg ED, or 50 mg EOD. Now this begs to differ with our standard 50/50/25/25 regimen, as 50 mg ED is AGAIN a drastically high and completely unnecessary dose. Again, the side effects of clomid can be quite bothersome and bad. Why risk vision changes or loss running 50 mg ED when you could just do 25 mg ED or 50 mg EOD and get the exact same benefits without the side effects?
My recommendation: 25 mg clomid ED for 6-8 weeks, or longer if you need it to recover test levels. The only way to know you have recovered is with blood work. Yes you may definitely feel better, but get bloods. These are your nuts were talking about here. Alternatively 50 mg clomid EOD is also perfectly fine and acceptable. It just may be harder to keep up with this dosing regimen, whereas 25 mg ED is easy: one pill every day in the morning and you’re set. Easy to remember.
Torem
Due to requests, I am adding toremifene in! Torem is a newer and less studied SERM than nolva or clomid, but quite often compared to them as being better and having less side effects. Best of both worlds! Unfortunately there are no large trial studies with torem yet as it is not FDA indicated for male hypogonadism. Nor are there any studies directly comparing torem to clomid. There is however a study comparing nolva to torem, which found that torem is equal in efficacy to nolva in treating breast cancer in women, and torem actually decreased bone mineral density MORE than nolva did. Here is the study Shibboleth Authentication Request just hit download PDF
Torem also has a half life of 5 days, with an active metabolite N-desmethyltoremifene having a longer half life at 6 days. This is better than the case with nolva where the active metabolite has a half life of 14 days.
Choosing between nolva or torem: Torem is known to carry less side effects with it. If you know you do not like nolva due to having side effects from it, torem may be for you. Both are efficacious and will work well. If you can only get nolva pharmacy grade and RC torem, I HIGHLY recommend the pharmacy grade choice always. At least with pharmacy grade you know what you are buying. Why roll the dice with RC drugs that you are using to try to start your nuts up? Just not worth the risk to me.
My recommendation: 60 mg torem ED for 6-8 weeks after your cycle. 60 mg is the FDA recommended dosage, and they found no benefit upon doubling the dose in women with breast cancer. Again, I believe that doubling the dosage would pretty much do almost nothing for your PCT recovery going well besides give you more chances of side effects. Of course longer cycles may require longer PCT.
- I do not recommend stacking nolva and torem. Think of torem as an alternate to nolva. Unfortunately since torem is still quite new of a drug, there is not a lot of information out there on whether or not stacking it with clomid would help your PCT. Torem may not need to be stacked with clomid for PCT due to torem working so well on its own, but adding low dose clomid to a torem PCT will probably only help. Just be sure to stay low dose for each.
My recommendation: 500 to 1000 units IM 3 times weekly for 3 weeks followed by 500 to 1000 units IM 2 times weekly for 3 weeks. Wait 4 days, and then PCT. If you want to time this for the end of a test E cycle, you would start it 4 weeks before your last test E injection, that way you run the full 6 weeks in alignment with the 2 week off period between test E and PCT. You’re welcome
This is the actual FDA indicated and recommend dosage for treatment of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males. Boom. We have hit the nail on the head here with this one lucky drug, as that crazy hypo mumbo jumo hypogonadism is pretty much exactly what we are experiencing when we are trying to PCT when being shut down from exogenous testosterone administration. You can also run HCG at the standard 250 IU 2-3x per week (heck you can even double that dosage to 500 IU 2-3x per week if you want) throughout your cycle to make PCT just as easy and more efficicent.Fertility : If you want to maintain fertility as best you can, running HCG and HMG (look right below) throughout your cycles or BnC is, in my opinion, your best bet. I am not here to argue with anyone, just making a recommendation here. HCG is cheap, easily accessible (if we are acquiring gear, I am sure we have no trouble acquiring HCG), and really does not have too many negative side effects. There is thought of building tolerance to it, sadly this will never really be studied because who is going to study steroid users trying to PCT with HCG? If you are concerned with tolerance, you can choose to alternate running HCG on the BnC. So either during blasts, or during cruises, and then off for the other part.
Speaking of fertility, remember how HCG is an LH analogue? Well there is another big player in fertility in men, and that is FSH, or follicle stimulating hormone. Again, FSH analogue drugs are very complex, even more complex than LH analogues and are discussed here in our sub even LESS than HCG. Now this may be because only the LH is needed in most cases to PCT successfully, or be due to the fact that the FSH analogues are actually a bit tougher to acquire than HCG. There are a few different FSH analogue drugs, but I will be looking at HMG or human menopausal gonadotropin.
HMG is considered a menotropin. Another menotropin you could substitute for HMG is urofollitropin. If you want to make your PCT even easier or more successful and/or are worried about fertility, then using HMG may be beneficial to you. In most cases HMG or an FSH analogue will not be needed to successfully PCT, even after a long cycle, but alas everyone is different and some may actually need both the LH and FSH analogues to fully kickstart those testicles. LUCKILY for us again, HMG is FDA indicated for “assisted reproductive technology” in women who have previously received pituitary suppression, or in our case PCT. Now I will not get into explaining the HPTA (you can google and read Wikipedia for that yourself) but this is good news for us, as our pituitaries have been suppressed due to exogenous testosterone administration. HMG just like HCG is a well tolerated drug, so adding it in to your PCT plans will likely only help PCT go faster and smoother, and may even help with regaining fertility quicker. It may be more expensive than HCG, but the course of it is only 12 days.
My dose recommendation: 225 IU IM initial dose daily for 12 days maximum AND THEN AFTERWARDS run HCG. If after a few days you are tolerating the 225 IU well, you can consider running UP TO 450 IU injected IM every day for the remainder of the 12 days. This higher dose is likely not needed, but if you find your PCT unsuccessful or your nuts not seeming to be regaining function after a few days on the 225 IU, you can CONSIDER increasing to 300 IU, or any dose up to 450 IU per day maximum. These are the FDA recommendations and dosages for HMG or urofollitropin.
Info from Banned triptorelin does work we ran a pct experiment along time ago and the pharma grade product worked even better but triptorelin is also used medically for chemical castration so like is said in this write up its measured in micrograms if your not familiar with micrograms think about fetanyl its measured in micrograms that’s why everyone is dying its extremely hard to get micrograms right. So if its wrong you might be chemically castrated but if its real and it is dosed right it works exceptionally well proven by blood work experiment with multiple individuals and factors.
Banned
Finally we have pretty much covered all of our bases. However there is one drug that has not been covered yet, and here now it rears its devilish head. Triptorelin. Specifically triptorelin acetate. Triptorelin is used for palliative prostate advanced stage cancer treatment. Yikes. One of the biggest problems with triptorelin is that all the pharmacy grade drugs of triptorelin are long acting or depots with long esters attached to the triptorelin molecule. Almost basically like nandrolone decanoate. So what right? The long acting ester of triptorelin will chemically castrate you if you inject too much of it intramuscularly. Yea, this pretty much does the exact opposite of PCT. The big problem of the pharma grade long esters of triptorelin is that they are designed specifically to be used in cataclysmic levels which would probably feel like dipping your nuts into an active volcano. There is just no way even if you got your hands on the low dose 3.75 mg triptorelin depot that you could accurately dose yourself 100 mcg. Yes, 100 mcg is the maximum dose you can take of triptorelin ACETATE (sonic the hedgehog ester) without highly risking chemical castration annihilation. Hence your only option if you go the triptorelin ace route is to get it from a research chemical company. Even after searching this sub and a few other places thoroughly, I could not find much info or even really any anecdotal reviews or blood work from gear users who tried triptorelin for PCT. Now there is a great study in our wiki http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00503-0/fulltext but alas it is a case report where N=1 or only 1 test patient. However the results were incredible.
If you go the triptorelin route, it is highly advised that you only do this if you plan to end a long BnC and/or be done with steroids forever. Think of this as the ultimate PCT. If you are coming off several years of BnC, triptorelin should work for you. However you should not use it to PCT off the BnC only to hop back on gear a few months later. Save this as your end all be all. Or accept TRT for life, which I know many here are completely fine with. Just if you are not fine with this, then reserve triptorelin ace as the final effort.
My recommendation: RC triptorelin acetate (you better trust your source on this one) 100 mcg (yes micrograms) injected IM once. Then a standard or low dose SERM like nolva 20/20/10/10 or clomid 25/25/25EOD/25EOD. This is used to aid in PCT recovery as well as prevent estrogen rebound that occurs from triptorelin. You could also consider using an AI, although I don’t think it will really be necessary while on the SERM. If you do opt for an AI as well, just be sure to take it very low dose, as any standard AI protocol we are used to like 12.5 mg asin EOD will pretty much be guaranteed to crash your estro and make your dick dead.
!!!@!@!!!1212!!!- If anyone has anecdotal or blood work with using triptorelin, I am sure many of us would love to see you post it and your experience with it. Please share!
I will reach out to Jceasar369 and tell you were to find the blood work and experiment
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This is just the beginning have to do something else will be back to finish this is just the first chapter
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