Rookie ?'s

[FaithNIron]

Hey team, looking for some insight from some willing verterans...thanks in advance!

I've been on TRT for 2 years, went off for a year, back on 8 mos ago...160mg/wk in 2 doses...labs were high in hematocrit, rbc, T at 1498, high bp, plus acne started up again right at about the 4 month mark. Dialed back to 140/wk, major lifestyle changes (cleaned up diet, cut caffeine, cardio 4x a week, Telmisartan & tadalfil), bp normal range which I'm thrilled about, but acne is stubborn- and summer's coming up.

Just got labs done yesterday, but expecting T to still be around 1200...I'm pretty happy with my physique, I'm 5'8" 195, maybe 18-20% bf? Visible abs, but barely...so could certainly cut a bit, but trying to preserve size.

So only enhancement I've done is T. The plan is to boost T to 200 while running NPP, then drop T to 120 to hopefully stop acne and cruise for a while with primo. I've tried almost all the acne approaches except accutane...including different supplements to try and curtail the DHT.

Thoughts & recommendations?

 

[Dirtnasty]

What are your eTrogen numbers

 

[Neuro]

Hey team, looking for some insight from some willing verterans...thanks in advance!

I've been on TRT for 2 years, went off for a year, back on 8 mos ago...160mg/wk in 2 doses...labs were high in hematocrit, rbc, T at 1498, high bp, plus acne started up again right at about the 4 month mark. Dialed back to 140/wk, major lifestyle changes (cleaned up diet, cut caffeine, cardio 4x a week, Telmisartan & tadalfil), bp normal range which I'm thrilled about, but acne is stubborn- and summer's coming up.

Just got labs done yesterday, but expecting T to still be around 1200...I'm pretty happy with my physique, I'm 5'8" 195, maybe 18-20% bf? Visible abs, but barely...so could certainly cut a bit, but trying to preserve size.

So only enhancement I've done is T. The plan is to boost T to 200 while running NPP, then drop T to 120 to hopefully stop acne and cruise for a while with primo. I've tried almost all the acne approaches except accutane...including different supplements to try and curtail the DHT.

Thoughts & recommendations?

Would like to see estrogen #’s. My acne always flairs up when estrogen gets too high.

I don’t think NPP will be your friend at 18-20% bf. What is your rationale behind npp for a bit then primo? Just so we can understand what you’re trying to accomplish?

 

[FaithNIron]

I should have lab results soon and will certainly post. Tried DIM + CDG in an attempt to equalize E levels, no luck. Rationale? Have read that NPP has a good anabolic profile but fairly mild so would see some hypertrophy but limit risk, then primo to maintain and trim down a bit. Also have read that NPP is excellent for joint health & I have nagging long term hockey shoulder & knee issues.

 

[TommyJam]

I personally, would be careful with NPP if labs show that e2 is elevated. The increase in prolactin from the NPP will hit my nips hard if e2 is up.

one idea would be to skip the NPP and go with the primo addition you mentioned. That would give you some extra anabolism and help you cut, and primo will also bring e2 down for most, which will likely help your acne.

edit: if no experience with primo, would need to take care not to crash e2 completely with the primo

 

[Poppy]

My opinion only… maybe not do npp and primo your first time.

I might recommend mast e along with bumping up your test. I would also leave your test (pinning) at the highest possible amounts you can sustain with the fewest sides. You can pin the mast and t in the same syringe.

Blood labs with estrogen monitoring is a must. Some folks are estrogen factories which would necessitate you taking a different path.

For your joints I would recommend voodoo flossing and prehab/rehab movements along with sleeves. There’s work arounds for almost everything unless your joints are real bad and in need of surgery.

 

[Neuro]

Nandrolone will not fix any joint pain. It will mask it, and it will feel better while you run it, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But it will not fix it.

If you’re 18-20% bf you’re going to aromatize at a higher rate. Contrary to social media nowadays, aromatase inhibitors won’t kill you. DIM is a great tool, but also has been shown to block DHT which is less than ideal.

I would say skip npp. You’re possibly already having estrogen issues, adding prolactin sides will throw another monkey wrench into your progress.

I say run test only. If you have to run something else- primo is a better choice than NPP imo. It will probably help with estrogen.

 

[Neuro]

Also have read that NPP is excellent for joint health & I have nagging long term hockey shoulder & knee issues

Bpc and tb500 will take your joint relief miles further than nandrolone.

 

[FaithNIron]

Thanks guys. I've been using bpc and tb on and off for quote a while now, a few years probably and has been successful. I don't have constant pain or even nagging pain. But i know the soft tissues aren't what they once were and i can feel when they're getting weak first during lifting. To clarify....my goal is to add a little bit of mass while cutting some of the fat off. I'm pretty dialed in lifestyle wise...and 5 young kids doesn't lend me the time to prioritize much more, so looking for a little bit of enhancement help. Curious, not contradicting- why would I want to raise test when that's what causes rbc production boosting hemotocrit and bp, instead of something less erythropoietic but still anabolic like primo, mast, var, etc?

 

[Neuro]

Thanks guys. I've been using bpc and tb on and off for quote a while now, a few years probably and has been successful. I don't have constant pain or even nagging pain. But i know the soft tissues aren't what they once were and i can feel when they're getting weak first during lifting. To clarify....my goal is to add a little bit of mass while cutting some of the fat off. I'm pretty dialed in lifestyle wise...and 5 young kids doesn't lend me the time to prioritize much more, so looking for a little bit of enhancement help. Curious, not contradicting- why would I want to raise test when that's what causes rbc production boosting hemotocrit and bp, instead of something less erythropoietic but still anabolic like primo, mast, var, etc?

What was your actual hematocrit and RBC? You would have to be quite a hyper responder to have levels actually dangerous off 160mg of test.

 

[FaithNIron]

This is on 160 mg/wk spread over 2 pins. dropped to 140/wk, still waiting for labs but acne is bad enough I'm going to drop more, have been through the gambit with acne. Would love to find a source for mast & primo, but just got scammed by the fake GC website so guess i don't have enough experience yet.

 

[Poppy]

Those lab numbers are not terrible. Just a bit elevated… good on you for keeping an eye on them.

I suppose you know this now…GC doesn’t have a site.

How bad is your acne? Like total pizza face? More than 1/2 dozen on back/chest?

 

[Neuro]

This is on 160 mg/wk spread over 2 pins. dropped to 140/wk, still waiting for labs but acne is bad enough I'm going to drop more, have been through the gambit with acne. Would love to find a source for mast & primo, but just got scammed by the fake GC website so guess i don't have enough experience yet.

View attachment 18388

Yeah dude this is totally fine. How hydrated were you morning of labs?

 

[Neuro]

I’m going to be 100% honest here. If you can’t handle 140 of test, you don’t need to add anything else on top of it. More compounds more problems. Click on the banner for any of our sponsors and only go through those links.

 

[FaithNIron]

Thanks for the input guys, truly appreciated. Basically just trying to get as big as possible, while staying lean ( 200 lbs 14% is goal) and not doing any major/permanent long term damage. I understand that's a very nuanced, delicate balance, if even possible. Those labs were at 160/wk and T was >1500 so like others on here, no idea how high it actually was...but it's high enough for elevated bp & consistent bacne/ biceps (no face, neck or chest), maybe 12 or so at a time. Transparently, I'm after health and aesthetics...afraid my aspirations of Olympia or Strongman are well past me. Also being 5'8" doesn't help . So what's the point of size and definition if I can't take my shirt off because my back looks like it was peppered with birdshot? Next idea is to switch my strategy to cruise at 110 with 2-3 blasts @ 400 for 6/8 weeks a year. But I'd still be interested in mast/primo/var potentially as accelerators, so I've read...

 

[FaithNIron]

Those lab numbers are not terrible. Just a bit elevated… good on you for keeping an eye on them.

I suppose you know this now…GC doesn’t have a site.

How bad is your acne? Like total pizza face? More than 1/2 dozen on back/chest?

consistent bacne/ biceps (no face, neck or chest), maybe 12 or so at a time. Almost positive it's DHT

 

[Poppy]

This is just me… in the summer with my shirt off… bacne clears up nicely. Yes…at 60 something I still get bacne….

 

[FaithNIron]

so you just deal? I imagine you've gone through everything I've been trying already...short of Accutane?

 

[Dirtnasty]

Thanks for the input guys, truly appreciated. Basically just trying to get as big as possible, while staying lean ( 200 lbs 14% is goal) and not doing any major/permanent long term damage. I understand that's a very nuanced, delicate balance, if even possible. Those labs were at 160/wk and T was >1500 so like others on here, no idea how high it actually was...but it's high enough for elevated bp & consistent bacne/ biceps (no face, neck or chest), maybe 12 or so at a time. Transparently, I'm after health and aesthetics...afraid my aspirations of Olympia or Strongman are well past me. Also being 5'8" doesn't help . So what's the point of size and definition if I can't take my shirt off because my back looks like it was peppered with birdshot? Next idea is to switch my strategy to cruise at 110 with 2-3 blasts @ 400 for 6/8 weeks a year. But I'd still be interested in mast/primo/var potentially as accelerators, so I've read...

Yep 5’8” is on the tall end for high level body builders. Seriously guys like Derek and Nick are like 5’4”

 

[Poppy]

so you just deal? I imagine you've gone through everything I've been trying already...short of Accutane?

Yep… wifey scrubs back pretty good every so often and keeps them popped.

One more thing… since im going bald since about 50yo… my scalp has had on and off zits. Pretty bad at times. I dunno