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Banned question of the day why take clomiphene and nolvadex during pct?

Bigmurph6

Bigmurph6

Banned
I would really like to know why or if you know why we take nolvadex and/or clomiphene for PCT.
Why not take one or the other? Can you take one or the other instead of both?

What effects do each compound have there has to be a reason that there taken together and not 4wks nolvadex and then 4wks clomiphene?

I feel like honestly alot of people don’t know the answers to this question because from the beginning the cookie cutter protocol is shoved down our throats.

@UGMain

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT IT???

Please don’t just push the heart make a post with your opinion there’s no wrong answer in this thread I will make a new category named no wrong answer if I have to this is for theoretical discussion about what we do and why we do it

Please discuss your opinion
 
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I never considered using both at the same time, and instead opted to use nolva alone due to my own reading into effects on IGF with nolva vs clomid. I use nolva cause as someone that doesn’t cruise, making a good recovery is important to me.
 
Clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist and nolva is pure antagonist estrogen receptor blocker.

Clomid stimulates the release LH AND FSH, but I don’t believe nolva has any interaction to stimulate the release of LH.

We use them both together because you’re stimulating the release of hormones from two different trigger points. Resulting in an overall higher natural test level from the use of both. Rather than just one.

I believe the studies are pretty strong in favor of test levels/production after use of both rather than one.
 
I never really researched as to why we take it, but I have read enough on here and other sources that it is the consensus of being the standard PCT to cover all angles in facilitating your system kickstarting testosterone production. If you had to choose one or the other, which one would you take? If someone has never ran these compounds before and they take both during PCT and experience side effects, how to know which AI is the culprit? That would be one reason I could see someone not wanting to run both initially or to save money.
 
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So I will be on all day but im going to give what I believe tonight. This question actually stemmed from what @SidTheSlothh was asking the other day about pct. I started thinking and that’s either dangerous or sometimes I find gold at the end of the rainbow and instead of just giving the cookie cutter answer I will offer up more than a few different ways people do things and there explanations as to why including myself. So far I love the answers because everyone hit on atleast something I was going to talk about. I also wanted to add that old school guys like @rnmuscle and @Kad1 could possibly get what im really going for because I believe that the cookie cutter method had to start somewhere and hopefully it wasn’t with Dr Ziegler lol

Keep them coming and I promise the write up will be worth it
 
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So, Clomid was taken mostly for the stimulation of FSH and LH and then increased testosterone. Studies have shown it’s ok for male infertility. As long as theres nothing obstructing the semen, it shows increased sperm and semen. Also, It was clomid and HCG. Nolvadex was taken if gyno was a problem during a cycle. Since Clomid will raise test and thus possibly estrogen in men, at the time someone said add nolvadex to combat this. Then bbers were afraid of the nolvadex lowering IGF-1!!! My PCT was clomid 25 mg for one week, 50mg for 3 weeks. HCG was always the question. DID i have the 5000iu, the 2000iu…it was taken back then preferably at 1000 units every other or 2 days for a few weeks. I remember trying to always get at least 10,000 for the PCT. I dont even rember calling it PCT. But, In the 80s early 90s’ I dont remember ever hearing DECA DICK, or guys Balls shrinking…we were in our late teens early twenties, Fucking everything. I was just off cycle and “cleaning out the receptors” Giving the AR a rest. When we were off, we would also try other things like cytadren and teslac to methandriol to help with receptors" No science to this(maybe 2%), if The biggest guys did it then thats what you did. I used to believe that i could get bicep peak like Albert beckles and outer/inner calves etc…But you know what…I did the work and had 20inch calves. Toes in, Toes out, Toes straight…hit them hard for years. its the same. If you believe in something and put 110% in it you will have good success. Then it matters how high the goal is.
 
That’s exactly what i was thinking but didn’t want to say it…not …hahaha. That’s one more reason i come here. Most reliable knowledge ever!
 
Good afternoon sir. @Bigmurph

Honestly I have never pct’d. In the early/ mid 80’s me and my crowd were so ignorant to the whole thing. As @rnmuscle stated, there wasn’t a lot of the terms that evolved to today. In my area it was winni, deca, dbol, test of some sort (inj) and those pills…methelyesteron (sp). I’m sure I’m forgetting some. No internet and like @rnmuscle said. The biggest dude was the most “knowledgeable”. We had a tattered pamphlet for lack of better words that had a few cycles laid out. We just didn’t have the harm reduction knowledge that is around today. It was probably around, just not in my area/group. I produced 2 children in the middle of my of my reckless use. By the time the internet and pct knowledge was out and about…I was already backed off to blast and cruise (not what I called it back then) and just figured I would be on test with dbol (occasionally) the rest of my life.

My opinion is I think some folks get trt and pct confused. Some of the youngsters think trt will taper them back to normal. My advice is do just as y’all are doing. Study this stuff for health and maybe future family wants. If someone is in their mid 30’s or so and is comfortable with their situation in life…why come off?

One more caveat. I’m one of the lucky ones. I’ve never had gyno issues and blood panels from 10 years ago or so showed all estrogen related markers in range. I don’t even check anymore. Probably should.

I think I went sideways on rant. My apologies and gratitude for what you and the guys provide here.
 
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Sorry I got nothing here. I started way late in the game, after kids, and I blast and cruise as well. I did get a lump in my chest after first starting. I started with HCG in my TRT kit because my friend was prescribed that, and I thought that is what you should do, I took some Nolvadex for a bit and once my hormone labels stabilized it went away. In the 80-90s I was a fool. Eating everything I could and working out like a mad man and I couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t as big as Arnold.
 
A lump like in your “breast”? If so, darn that could have been not good. Glad it went away.
 
I know you stay as busy a one armed paperhanger keeping this site up and running…but you have a great thing here and the “harm reduction “ motto is spot on. Keep up the good fight brother.
 
@Bigmurph My opinion also is I believe a lot of kids start using at an early age without knowing the ramifications of reckless use and the actual meaning/reasons for pct and the fact that they may be on mandatory trt forever…which is a long time at 20(ish). I read one post on here where the fella was young and confused about restarting his own t production…all this was after he was into his 2nd cycle. I believe it was @NeuroRN who set him straight.
 
I guess I should have said chest. Lol. Yes and it hurt, but I researched it and it is not that uncommon with hormonal changes. Just to make sure I went to the Dr and he checked it out too (although he tried to convince me to stop taking Test or I was going to get Colon Cancer (I also researched this and the research appears to say that test can make it worse, but does not cause it- from what I could tell). That is one reason I have been hesitant to blast test up to 500mg. The damn lump may come back, but I have some Nolva on hand and I think I am going to do it soon anyway.
 
Get yourself some aromasin and do blood work to see where your estrogen actually is I was running MHN its a nandrolone oral but I thought it was causing a lump and I was fighting it with aromasin crashed my estrogen hard with no results. I got the blood work and it was being caused by progesterone.

I understand that your not running a nor19 but the lump if it goes away could just be fat in your chest especially since it went away. Just be careful and get blood work done even if you just test your e2 I do that to save money unless my goal is trt when im blasting im just curious about my e2 I know everything else is high and the test is cheaper.

Good luck and good gains brother

Sorry I should add @DarthSocrates that a lump in your chest is serious I shouldn’t have made it sound like just a lump of fat. I do believe that any lump in your chest or nipple at any time should be looked at by a doctor.
 
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