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First cycle (lower dose TRT supplement)

C

ColoMuscle

Well-known member
Looking for some input as this will be my first venture into non-therapeutic AAS use.

I started TRT back in December 2019 after getting my my test levels checked and having ~150 total T.

PA started me on 100mg/week of cyp which put me at ~590, so he upped me to 150mg/week in Mid-February 2020. This paired with hard training (emphasize barbell/powerlifting training) and diet (followed an RP Fat Loss template) helped me drop 12 lbs while hitting some big all-time PRs in many main exercises. Ive really enjoyed making progress and want to dive a little deeper in the pool now.

After my next round of bloods I want to try to to supplement my TRT with something extra. My primarily goal is to build strength while staying lean, adding a little bit of mass would be a nice secondary but I’m in no rush (id consider myself more of a powerlifter/strength enthusiast rather than a bodybuilder/physique guy). My initial thought would be to add ~100-200/week of prop, starting low and slowly titrating up based on how I feel). I wanna go lower dose with a shorter ester for the following reasons…

-lower my dose if I start to feel sides so symptoms subside hopefully a little quicker rather than employ an AI. My research has convinced me that AIs should be avoided if possible (might to unavoidable for intermediate/advanced users but seems silly to me for a novice user) Plus I want to keep it simple for the first “cycle”.

-Faster clearance time so I can get things back to where they need to be before another round of bloods.

-I want to use as little as possible to keep making progress.

Couple questions I do have…

-is it okay to employ test p with test c provided you follow appropriate injection schedules?

-if you were using test p how long before trt blood work would you discontinue?

Let me know if you have any other thoughts.
 
If it’s your first time to cycle just use test only you can use cyp with enanthate shouldn’t be a prob I would say 500mg per week for 12-14 weeks may I ask why you are against Ai if you need it you need it. I would get a private lab to at least check your free and total test and estrogen checked at week 5-6 that way you don’t have to guess if you need an ai or how much Ai if Ai is needed start then by doing this you have good baseline test from your doctor with trt and then on cycle run it out then drop back to your normal trt dose I’m sure there are several guys here that can give you more insight as well don’t be afraid to ask and share your progress good or bad and we can help you achieve your goals
 
Thanks for the feedback. Ive done a lot of research but have little practical experience so I appreciate insight from experienced members here.

My hesitation with AIs first comes from a YouTube channel I follow called More Plates More Dates. That channel presents a lot of medical research showing the cardio/neurotoxic effects of AIs. That paired with a lot of other info provided there is where most the rationale for my suggested cycle comes from.

Now, I wouldn’t be opposed to using an AI temporarily and Ill more than likely pick one up when I make an order just to have on hand. Id be okay with employing it briefly to reduce symptoms if I get sides (or I see something in follow up blood work like you’re suggesting) but if Im doing that then I also would lower my test dose back down to the amount I could use without needing the AI. Ive read that this is very individual in that some people can handle 500+ mg without one and others could have estro issues with just a TRT dose. The goal of my first cycle is to keep my test dose under that threshold and then in future cycles I would look to add in more tissues selective/less aromitizing compounds (or Proviron like @Sig516 suggested) or maybe try a little more test if the amount I worked up to was issue free.

My rationale for Test P was to help with mitgating sides since it would clear faster if I needed to adjust things back down to a lower dosages. Plus faster clearance would help make sure I have time to make sure my bloods looked good to PA prescribing my TRT. What is your rationale for recommended Test E instead?
 
I misread the test p for e short ester will clear faster as so not to freak out your trt doctor I am On trt as well so I fully understand you are just go kool ing to have to take shots EOD or ED. Are you ok with that it doesn’t sound bad but two weeks of gouging metal in every spot on your body can get old if you are not committed if you can get bloodwork on your on there are private labs you will know if you need an Ai and won’t have to guess and it’s only for cycle not forever so I dont think there would be long term
Side effects from short term use I do know people who use them all the time but the also compete at a high lvl so I’m sure there are some guys here that can go further in depth as far as dosage I would at least do 100mg EOD with your weekly dose of 150
 
Ive pinned my Test Cyp as often as 3x per week (no particular reason just wanted to get more comfortable with injecting), so I dont think I have a problem with frequent injections. I’ll have some aromasin on hand just in case I feel the beginning of some more difficult-to-fix sides (I.e gyno) but again the plan is find the sweet spot where the AI isn’t needed and see how much progress I can make at that dosage. Hopefully I’m fortunate enough that I can handle at least 300-400/week total test dosage (150 Test C + ? Prop). So I may not start with Test P 100mg EOD right away but if I can build up to that over time without any issues
(may take more than 1 cycle) I’m not opposed to it.

When would you cut off the Prop before your follow up TRT bloods? 2 weeks? 4 weeks?
 
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Did the doc prescribe you an AI? You, I, need AI on just TRT dosage (200 mg/week). Also is this a family doc or a low t clinic? From what I’ve read on here over and over, normal practitioners do not know squat about testosterone and how to correctly prescribe and monitor it. If you are going to raise your intake of test than you will absolutely need an AI and Frequent lab work to find the sweet spot with the estrogen and testosterone levels. If you’re using your family doc, I would suggest finding a low t clinic, a reputable one. With my low t doc I can be 100-% honest about the other AAS that I’m using. He gives me the spill about the dangers, but he still advises me on the safest ways to continue.
 
That is a good point I went through 5 doctors and finally found and endocrinologist that actually knew what was going on then even further with an anti aging clinic that really knew the deal and helped me produce some offspring and I still roll with them I need an ai too not much but makes a world of difference on free test numbers I can’t say I have ever had an issue with sides from it I use aromasin pill I tend to stay away from the liquids but I know some guys who use that with good results bloodwork is key not very expensive really to know where you stand
 
I appreciate the feedback guys. I’m not sure if it’s okay to post external links here, but I’d recommend checking out More Plate More Dates if you want more info on why I’m a little gun shy on AIs (he uses a references scientific/medical literature so it’s not just bro science.

Sounds like I have two choices…

-Be ready to use an AI if I want to push my test dose into more supra-physiological levels if confirmed by bloodwork.
-Look at compounds that do not aromatize (TBol, more DHT derivatives etc.)
 
It is a good thing to read and educate yourself on things but don’t just listen to the bad scary parts your body is different than mine so trust yourself don’t freak out if your nipple itches and eat a bunch of ai continue to read your don’t sound like the type to guess so get bloodwork then you don’t have too baseline vs cycle have they ever tested your estrogen at your trt doc they prob would if you asked
The. You would have free baselines 😀 bit you can also stick to the safe side of the pool too nothing g wrong with that either
 
I’ll keep it low initially. Recently I watched an interview/podcast with a well respected IFBB Pro who said that if youre starting out and cant make progress on 300mg of Test you probably shouldn’t be doing this. I just put in an order for some test p and and Aromasin. Gonna run 100-150/week on top of my 150/week cyp and see how we do. Might even start a log here if anyone is intrested in following.
 
@ColoMuscle if your hesitant to use a AI, then you probably should not start out with aromasin, it’s a suicide inhibitor, it’s gonna fuck your estrogen up,why not adex
 
Let me clarify - I’m hesitant to use an AI long term (the whole duration of a cycle). If some side effects at a given test dose manifest that I’m uncomfortable with I will employ the AI while also lowering the test down to a previously well tolerated dose and then remove the AI.

As far as aromasin vs adex I have a basic understanding of the difference between the two (aromasin is suicidal and adex is steroidal)
To be honest the sponsor I chose to order from was out of adex but had aromasin. Also in my research I found that most recommendations were either a toss-up (either is fine, use what you prefer) or that aromasin is a slightly less harsh option with a larger margin for error in dosing it. Never found anything saying adex was the safer option. If you have a reference showing that Id definitely have a look at it!
 
Never said adex was safer, so no I don’t have a reference…but I don’t see how adex is more harsh then aromasin.i also have to say I’ve never used aromasin either, if needed I use adex, and most the time I don’t, just with deca. It is a toss up, depends on who you ask, but in general I’ve learned, most would use adex first, and then try aromasin,which would leave me to believe that adex is not as harsh on your estrogen as aromasin, just my two cents buddy.
 
I’m using xtane on first cycle and have been happy with it. E3d has me getting doing great until about halfway through day 2 I get a little bitchy.
 
Adex would be safer in terms of not completely crashing your estrodiol levels.
Adex inhibits the aromatization process.
Aromisin will effectively lower your ‘e’ levels, which could lead to crashing sooner than arimidex.
Just something to think about.
 
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