Aromasin vs bone density
- Thread starter Darian
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Bigmurph6
Banned
I take 6.25mg and it crushes my estrogen.
I see these studies and people taking 25mg or even 12.5mg multiple times a wk and this is when im on cycle at 500mgs a wk of test so my number should be around 2500 and 6.25mg once a wk makes me dry out to where I skip weeks.
My exemestane actually is pharma grade natco and its insanely strong.
I believe that it can cause serious side effects long term and short term if not respected.
Letrozole is probably worse after the build up in the system
I see these studies and people taking 25mg or even 12.5mg multiple times a wk and this is when im on cycle at 500mgs a wk of test so my number should be around 2500 and 6.25mg once a wk makes me dry out to where I skip weeks.
My exemestane actually is pharma grade natco and its insanely strong.
I believe that it can cause serious side effects long term and short term if not respected.
Letrozole is probably worse after the build up in the system
@Bigmurph, Am i understanding correctly that you take 6.25 once a week and at times that carries you farther than a week? From everything I seen the half life is short (few days full life). Also that it needs to be taken regularly to be effective (I am sure you have alot more experience with it then I do so please disregard my ignorance).
Bigmurph6
Banned
This is 100% true and I know many people that can take it eod or ed at 6.25mg but me personally no I need 1 dose and my estrogen will drop to where I need it to be.
I can also skip weeks. I don’t take heavy estrogen conversion compounds anymore though because of my bp so I don’t really need something as strong as aromasin.
I prefer it though because I can take as needed instead of adex all the time or risking just nolvadex which I have done but reccomend always having an ai on hand. The nolvadex did work fine and I ran nandrolone. Risky but I did it. I don’t recommend taking an ai unless you know that you are estrogen sensitive or blood work shows that you need it.
Many are going to not like these answers but its my personal experience and just remember everyone is different
I can also skip weeks. I don’t take heavy estrogen conversion compounds anymore though because of my bp so I don’t really need something as strong as aromasin.
I prefer it though because I can take as needed instead of adex all the time or risking just nolvadex which I have done but reccomend always having an ai on hand. The nolvadex did work fine and I ran nandrolone. Risky but I did it. I don’t recommend taking an ai unless you know that you are estrogen sensitive or blood work shows that you need it.
Many are going to not like these answers but its my personal experience and just remember everyone is different
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SemperFi
Well-known member
My opinion is that the bone strenghthing effects of anabolic steroids more then offsets the possible bone weakening effects of a low dose of Aro needed to control estrogen.
Remember, many steroids have been used to treat osteoporosis.
That’s just my first impressions without fully reading the entire abstract.
Remember, many steroids have been used to treat osteoporosis.
That’s just my first impressions without fully reading the entire abstract.
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@Bigmurph thanks for the info. Ive been more knowledgeable on the EQ and Sust side of things. Sust however with its mix of long medium and short, very easily throws estrogen off. Moving towards a stable E though may be different. Where can I read up on the estrogen vs bp info? Thats a new one on me.
@SemperFi, I honestly did not know it had been used for that. I will read up on that aspect tonight, and quite honestly the short term losses were a very small %loss, if they do oppose at greater than 5% it should actually take care of itself.
@SemperFi, I honestly did not know it had been used for that. I will read up on that aspect tonight, and quite honestly the short term losses were a very small %loss, if they do oppose at greater than 5% it should actually take care of itself.
Bigmurph6
Banned
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www.sciencedaily.com
https://www.medstarwashington.org/o...y/conditions/hormonal-causes-of-hypertension/
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/502204
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www.kidney.org
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pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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www.lifeextension.com
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academic.oup.com
I’m not sure how much these will help but its a start int the right direction
Bigmurph6
Banned
I don’t recommend running estrogen over 45ng/ml for long periods of time. Long periods meaning the 10-15wks on cycle.
Also taking into consideration that you are not experiencing sexual issues, swelling of extremities, and itchy and scratchy or even swollen nipples.
Running your estrogen over 30ng/ml puts you at risk for alot of health issues.
Running your estrogen levels low also puts you at risk for health issues. So you really don’t want to run an ai and crash your estrogen levels throughout your cycle also.
I honestly don’t know where on the low side estrogen levels get dangerous. This is why blood work is so important on cycle. I would imagine that it gets dangerous on the low side around under 10ng/ml. I don’t know much about that to be honest I just know that you don’t want to hinder gains by crashing your estrogen over and over with aromasin or letrozole and even a doses of arimidex can crash estrogen.
I should add that 45ng/ml is my number that I don’t want to go over and that I have read others running higher. Powerlifters and pro bbers probably do run higher.
In my opinion 45 is what im comfortable being up to.
Also taking into consideration that you are not experiencing sexual issues, swelling of extremities, and itchy and scratchy or even swollen nipples.
Running your estrogen over 30ng/ml puts you at risk for alot of health issues.
Running your estrogen levels low also puts you at risk for health issues. So you really don’t want to run an ai and crash your estrogen levels throughout your cycle also.
I honestly don’t know where on the low side estrogen levels get dangerous. This is why blood work is so important on cycle. I would imagine that it gets dangerous on the low side around under 10ng/ml. I don’t know much about that to be honest I just know that you don’t want to hinder gains by crashing your estrogen over and over with aromasin or letrozole and even a doses of arimidex can crash estrogen.
I should add that 45ng/ml is my number that I don’t want to go over and that I have read others running higher. Powerlifters and pro bbers probably do run higher.
In my opinion 45 is what im comfortable being up to.
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SemperFi
Well-known member
Every medical professional that I have ever seen concerning steroid use has recommended the regular use of an AI even at a replacement dose of testosterone.
This is my thought process…
Human physiology is just what it is and if we are injecting testosterone above normal levels we are increasing estrogen above normal levels as well. Making the need to use an AI assumed.
I can all but guarantee taking .5mg two times per week of arimidex in NOT going to crash a males estrogen levels if they are taking above a replacement dose of testosterone.
Let me pull a few statistics out of my ass but I believe that they are pretty accurate… more than 3/4 of steroid users do NOT get regular blood work done and very few actually know the signs of elevated estrogen until it becomes a ‘panic’ issue.
Knowing what I think I know about elevated levels of estrogen associated to steroid use and the introduction of an AI to mitigate that process it makes perfect sense in my mind to take a proactive approach and use a typical protocol of arimidex at the onset of the cycle or shortly thereafter. Not taking an AI until physical signs appear is crisis management vs. preventive maintenance.
Here are some statics from physicians based on current literature;
The most reasonable approach to any of this in my mind is to be proactive instead of reactive and a moderate dose of an AI is not going to harm you but at the same time it can mitigate the negative impact that elevated estrogen has on your cycle and on your body.
Concerning gyno- In my experience most of the individuals that experience signs of gyno are new users and are not monitoring their blood levels. Once they know they are prone to gyno they generally become more cognitive and proactive in their approach to steroid use.
This is my thought process…
Human physiology is just what it is and if we are injecting testosterone above normal levels we are increasing estrogen above normal levels as well. Making the need to use an AI assumed.
I can all but guarantee taking .5mg two times per week of arimidex in NOT going to crash a males estrogen levels if they are taking above a replacement dose of testosterone.
Let me pull a few statistics out of my ass but I believe that they are pretty accurate… more than 3/4 of steroid users do NOT get regular blood work done and very few actually know the signs of elevated estrogen until it becomes a ‘panic’ issue.
Knowing what I think I know about elevated levels of estrogen associated to steroid use and the introduction of an AI to mitigate that process it makes perfect sense in my mind to take a proactive approach and use a typical protocol of arimidex at the onset of the cycle or shortly thereafter. Not taking an AI until physical signs appear is crisis management vs. preventive maintenance.
Here are some statics from physicians based on current literature;
- Normal male estrogen levels are 20-55pg/dL
- A balanced estrogen level (quintile) in men is 21.8-30.11pg/dL
- Mortality rate is increased by 130% in men with estrogen levels above 37.5
- Mortality rate increases by over 300% in men with estrogen levels below 12.5
The most reasonable approach to any of this in my mind is to be proactive instead of reactive and a moderate dose of an AI is not going to harm you but at the same time it can mitigate the negative impact that elevated estrogen has on your cycle and on your body.
Concerning gyno- In my experience most of the individuals that experience signs of gyno are new users and are not monitoring their blood levels. Once they know they are prone to gyno they generally become more cognitive and proactive in their approach to steroid use.
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Ok @SemperFi so as far as anti estrogen blockers I’m on board with you. I remember when I first started using gear I didn’t have any anti estrogen blockers. It was also hard to get back then and we’ll you didn’t worry about it till you saw signs.
My first sign was when I got test to about 1000mg a week. I got swollen nipple on right side only. So I talked to my buddy who was experienced he said to get this over the counter product. Within a week systems where going away.
It wasn’t till I became more experienced and smarter that I started using estrogen blockers. Now for building muscle you want your levels as low as possible. We aren’t women we don’t need it. You can run anti estrogen blockers year round with zero effects it’s not going to harm you. Now I would cycle different blockers depending on what you’re running. I use
Nolvadex at 10mg eod and arimadex at 1 mg a day (not together). The only time I use aromison is if I’m running a stronger compound that converts or towards end of prep to help
Dry me out. Same with letro.
So for the average user you do not need blood work done just use common sense and have on hand if you see systems or
Be proactive and use it and get better results. And you are correct most people don’t get blood work done. I would if you compete but most people don’t.
So in conclusion don’t freak out on simple
Stuff. You guys will be just fine if you run test with or without an estrogen blocker and it’s not going to hurt you to use it. Trust me you’re not going to just shut it down to zero. You would need much stronger products like caber but we will save that for a later discussion
This comes from an experienced bodybuilder and someone who’s lived the lifestyle for years and also a coach that knows a thing or two. Not three but two or a thing lol.
My first sign was when I got test to about 1000mg a week. I got swollen nipple on right side only. So I talked to my buddy who was experienced he said to get this over the counter product. Within a week systems where going away.
It wasn’t till I became more experienced and smarter that I started using estrogen blockers. Now for building muscle you want your levels as low as possible. We aren’t women we don’t need it. You can run anti estrogen blockers year round with zero effects it’s not going to harm you. Now I would cycle different blockers depending on what you’re running. I use
Nolvadex at 10mg eod and arimadex at 1 mg a day (not together). The only time I use aromison is if I’m running a stronger compound that converts or towards end of prep to help
Dry me out. Same with letro.
So for the average user you do not need blood work done just use common sense and have on hand if you see systems or
Be proactive and use it and get better results. And you are correct most people don’t get blood work done. I would if you compete but most people don’t.
So in conclusion don’t freak out on simple
Stuff. You guys will be just fine if you run test with or without an estrogen blocker and it’s not going to hurt you to use it. Trust me you’re not going to just shut it down to zero. You would need much stronger products like caber but we will save that for a later discussion
This comes from an experienced bodybuilder and someone who’s lived the lifestyle for years and also a coach that knows a thing or two. Not three but two or a thing lol.
Bigmurph6
Banned
This is not entirely true.PHD said:
The AI’S that we use in bbing all have side effects and you need estrogen to build muscle. Its anabolic and if you crash your estrogen levels you are not going to get a good run out of that cycle estrogen has alot to do with building muscle.
Yes men need estrogen just like women. It was thought that for along time that estrogen wasn’t important in men but if you read the medical studies about the situation. They show that once they started to test estrogen levels in men they were able to see that estrogen levels effect mens health also in a negative way if to high or to low.
Men need estrogen in there bodies just as much as women do but just at different levels to stay healthy.
