Check this out.....try to watch the entire thing
- Thread starter Ldog
- Start date
Outlawthing
Well-known member
I will say this they were very patient but he wasn’t even resisting much I got a video like this made with me in it years ago … but I got out and may or may not have allegedly violated several officers rights if I was a cop I would have shot me so the question is does he have to get out ?
McSwickles
Meetings
Fuck those cops! They tased and pepper sprayed a non violent person for not cooperating! Fuck that I’d shoot too!
@McSwickles please explain why fuck those cops how many times did they ask him to get out? Maybe two dozen come on, he was DRIVING ILLEGALLY HE CHOSE TO BREAK THE LAW. They don’t tow vehicles with people in them.
Outlawthing
Well-known member
I didn’t realize he shot them fuck did it kill the officer
McSwickles
Meetings
You shouldn’t be allowed to use a taser or pepper spray on people simply for not following commands! He wasn’t being aggressive, he wasn’t acting threatening, he was refusing to leave his vehicle. The use of the taser followed by multiple shots of pepper spray, in my opinion was excessive. My choice of words “Fuck those cops” was a dick thing to say, I do hope they’re okay and no one was killed, but police officers can’t just taser and spray people like that and think people aren’t going react to it.
TG1
Staff member
This is a hard one. But the cops were wrong in how they handled this even in Use of Force. They guy is exhibiting mental comprehensive issues from the beginning. The Sgt shouldn’t have deployed the taser that fast and tone and threaten him.
There’s a way when dealing with people like this they are trained to follow but didn’t. It was further escalated by the way they tried to pull him out multiple times from the head. In any person if they are mental or not in a current state of mind would consider the head grab a survival threat. Meaning these guys are not trying to control him but attack him in their mind. They should have grabbed the left arm in proper armbar and swung him out into the ground.
Given the guy was required to follow a lawful order, they were wrong in handling it and ability to acknowledge his mental capacity.
The police officers were not trained properly and I’d be willing to bet this is a small PD as hes a Sgt saying only Captain is above him and not there. Smaller Departments usually hire people with minimal training.
Even deploying the taser there was a stupid idea. It is not the condition where a taser is meant to be deployed. I think the guy legitimately believed his life was in threat and the police believed they were handling it correctly.
There’s a way when dealing with people like this they are trained to follow but didn’t. It was further escalated by the way they tried to pull him out multiple times from the head. In any person if they are mental or not in a current state of mind would consider the head grab a survival threat. Meaning these guys are not trying to control him but attack him in their mind. They should have grabbed the left arm in proper armbar and swung him out into the ground.
Given the guy was required to follow a lawful order, they were wrong in handling it and ability to acknowledge his mental capacity.
The police officers were not trained properly and I’d be willing to bet this is a small PD as hes a Sgt saying only Captain is above him and not there. Smaller Departments usually hire people with minimal training.
Even deploying the taser there was a stupid idea. It is not the condition where a taser is meant to be deployed. I think the guy legitimately believed his life was in threat and the police believed they were handling it correctly.
SidTheSlothh
Well-known member
I have no sympathy for censored can’t comply with simple commands. Dude did this to himself. Also, many police officers have died when a suspect refuses to leave their vehicle or be allowed to return to it.
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TG1
Staff member
Everyone is forgetting the police have rules to follow. In this case the Sgt is dead, other officer was wounded. Suspect is being charged with death penalty but he won’t get it in this case.
Prosecution didn’t want to release the video arguing that Ware wouldn’t get a fair trial in the case and at the same time arguing that the defense wants too much to go public. The prosecution doesn’t give a shit about the defendant. They want to keep footage private for their case cause it weakens it.
Ware- the defendant is pleading not guilty. The video has already disproven other stuff stated on the police report they claimed Ware did.
Ware doesn’t meet all the items prosecution claims for the death penalty. So that’s a stretch. He will most likely get jail time but not the death penalty.
The prosecutors case will be torn apart when defense calls in experienced experts, experts in MHMR, and experts in law enforcement training.
Prosecution didn’t want to release the video arguing that Ware wouldn’t get a fair trial in the case and at the same time arguing that the defense wants too much to go public. The prosecution doesn’t give a shit about the defendant. They want to keep footage private for their case cause it weakens it.
Ware- the defendant is pleading not guilty. The video has already disproven other stuff stated on the police report they claimed Ware did.
Ware doesn’t meet all the items prosecution claims for the death penalty. So that’s a stretch. He will most likely get jail time but not the death penalty.
The prosecutors case will be torn apart when defense calls in experienced experts, experts in MHMR, and experts in law enforcement training.
SidTheSlothh
Well-known member
I think that the guy would have reacted that way regardless of the tazor and pepper spray being used. He was going to resist coming out of that vehicle either way. What is wrong with the escalation of force that was used? Don’t comply with repeated verbal commands? Cool, we will try and pull you out. Resist being pulled out, cool now we deploy non lethal measures to see if that works. I see no issue with how the officers handled that situation other than not being able to control the dude even when it was 2 on 1. How the hell he was able to grab the officer’s weapon and use it is beyond me. Another lowlife criminal we have to subsidize with our tax dollars. There is no winning as an LEO. Too aggressive and you get reprimanded and vilified. Too patient and cautious and you lose your life. They don’t get paid enough for the kind of shit they put up with.
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TG1
Staff member
Anyone with experience and these officers should have been trained to recognize this guy has mental issues by his speech and behaviour. After the first couple minutes I noticed the patterns.
Use of force they gave verbal commands and straight to taser. Physical force didn’t apply till after taser was deployed and was the other officer grabbing and pulling him by the head.
They skipped proper restraints with physical force from a car which is by the arm. Then if he refused they escalate. But still you don’t need to grab and throw from the head. That’s a huge difference and it’s not going to help getting anyone to comply. It creates a clusterfuck where your scrambling to grab an arm to control to place in handcuffs.
If these officers were properly trained they would have had a different outcome. Additionally when MHMR subjects are into play most LEOs are taught what’s known as “verbal judo” to get the subject to comply. It used to be taught in many places and I believe still is.
I went thru training for the Taser and you do not deploy it in the situation he did. The defense is going to subpoena his records on the training and his training officer on the cert if he is even certified. In the vehicle he should have went for OC spray after physical force attempted.
But none of that was probably needed if they handled him properly verbally. Theres cases of physical fights with multiple officers and one person with experience walking up and talking the MHMR subject into handcuffs easily with no further confrontation.
The subject will see jail time but he won’t get the death penalty. The prosecution knows this and thats why they don’t want the videos released. It’s not because it’s unfair to the defendant, it damages their case.
Use of force they gave verbal commands and straight to taser. Physical force didn’t apply till after taser was deployed and was the other officer grabbing and pulling him by the head.
They skipped proper restraints with physical force from a car which is by the arm. Then if he refused they escalate. But still you don’t need to grab and throw from the head. That’s a huge difference and it’s not going to help getting anyone to comply. It creates a clusterfuck where your scrambling to grab an arm to control to place in handcuffs.
If these officers were properly trained they would have had a different outcome. Additionally when MHMR subjects are into play most LEOs are taught what’s known as “verbal judo” to get the subject to comply. It used to be taught in many places and I believe still is.
I went thru training for the Taser and you do not deploy it in the situation he did. The defense is going to subpoena his records on the training and his training officer on the cert if he is even certified. In the vehicle he should have went for OC spray after physical force attempted.
But none of that was probably needed if they handled him properly verbally. Theres cases of physical fights with multiple officers and one person with experience walking up and talking the MHMR subject into handcuffs easily with no further confrontation.
The subject will see jail time but he won’t get the death penalty. The prosecution knows this and thats why they don’t want the videos released. It’s not because it’s unfair to the defendant, it damages their case.
TG1
Staff member
On Verbal Judo what I was discussing earlier.
“We know that the most deadly weapon we carry is not the .45 or the 9mm, it is in fact the cop’s tongue … A single sentence fired off at the wrong person at the wrong time can get you fired, it can get you sued, it can get you killed,” said Thompson.
“We know that the most deadly weapon we carry is not the .45 or the 9mm, it is in fact the cop’s tongue … A single sentence fired off at the wrong person at the wrong time can get you fired, it can get you sued, it can get you killed,” said Thompson.
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www.theguardian.com
All I’m going to say is you can always apply to become law enforcement and put up with this shit. Little fuckers like this watch YouTube videos and become lawyers. I bet he had warrants and priors. Get the fuck out of the car. Me, I would have tazed him till he was pissing himself. “Oh he wasn’t aggressive” yeah he shot and killed an officer and patrolman. If he would have just complied. Would have been a different story. Fucking sea lawyer’s. Grab a badge. Help then. Everyone focuses on the 1% that have suspected training. Not the millions that do it right every day. This shit pisses me off.
SidTheSlothh
Well-known member
I see where you are coming from and I wouldn’t doubt that you are right; however, it is always easy to break this shit down on who should do what, what shouldn’t be done, in a step by step fashion while in the comfort of a computer chair analyzing the situation. The police do not have the time nor in a state of tranquility to make the most sound decisions. They are operating under extreme stress and having to make split second decisions. I don’t know how many times I have seen military members be discharged and thrown in Leavenworth because some pussy armchair warrior lawyer can’t relate to being in the situation when the bullets start flying. Same thing with police officers…there are just some things no amount of training can prepare you for.
Maybe the officer would still be alive if it was handled differently. But what I do know is that the officer would still be alive if the scumbag listened in the first place or didn’t break the law to begin with. He is the reason he is facing life in prison and the reason that officer is dead and his alone.
Maybe the officer would still be alive if it was handled differently. But what I do know is that the officer would still be alive if the scumbag listened in the first place or didn’t break the law to begin with. He is the reason he is facing life in prison and the reason that officer is dead and his alone.
I don’t believe the cops have enough training to deal with people that have mental issues. With that being said if the guy has a history of drug use how do know that he is not fucked up? You can’t let him drive away and potentially hurting someone else. I’m not a fan of the police but I do feel bad for them lately. There in a damned if do, damned if you don’t situation constantly.
Just my two cents
Just my two cents
