Off gear since last year

[Wcr86]

Of course your Natty levels shutdown but you do realize you still start at that level and if you dose properly you will not ever go below that original threshold until you come off. This is the reason people front load , it gets those levels where you want them to be. So starting from let’s say 75 to someone who starts at 650 is a huge jumping off point and even more so if you front load. It’s literally the most basic of math. Just because your Natty levels shut down after so time on gear does not change the base you started at being a factor. It would be the same as let’s say, having 0ng/dl then getting you level to a constant 500ng/do at maybe 100mg a week then the for the next 3 weeks you jump up to 200mg per week. That additional 100mg a week is going to compound on the already 500ng/dl you already have in your system it isn’t going to double exactly because of half life but it will add to that base line of 500ng you already have. There for if you start at 75ng and add 400mg a week and someone else starts at 650ng and adds 400mg a week the person that started higher at 650ng will have a much higher number at least through the majority of the cycle

 

[MuscleGod]

@PHD I now weigh only around 227 Lbs on a 6ft frame, but I think you weigh a lot more, like 270+ ? lol so that could also be a reason my levels seems to be higher with the same dose?

 

[Wcr86]

And to answer the other part of your question that I’m sure was rhetorical… Obviously a bodybuilder can’t write prescriptions that is just a silly comment you made as a defensive mechanism, and I get why you did that. But in general yes anyone who looks like that knows there shit about this lifestyle. Let’s not make this conversation into a joke, some kid could be reading this and think what your saying is actually right…and that’s just wrong

 

[MuscleGod]

@Wcr86 the person that has higher natty levels before cycle will have much higher test levels through the majority of the cycle? Not sure if that’s a typo but natty levels are close to none existent during cycle & it doesn’t take long for that to happen, studies show that LH & FSH is reduced by like 80% only 4 days after starting test so imagine like 2-3 weeks into cycle ( I could find the study if you want) only thing that will make you produce natty test while on cycle is HCG etc

 

[Wcr86]

Again yes they shutdown but if you had 1000ng/dl today and you shutdown today you would not have 0 tomorrow, that’s just not how it works bud. It is a compounded effect.

 

[MuscleGod]

@Wcr86 OK so if I’m at 1000 ng/DL natty levels today & let’s say I get shut down today, what will my test levels be in like 2 weeks from today? Without any exogenous test added

 

[Wcr86]

Honestly depending upon binding, aromatase, and many other factors about 2.9ng/dl based off half life of testosterone. Scratch this, I think my math might be wrong. One second

 

[Wcr86]

But when you add exogenous testosterone it is added and compounds on that number, imagine it like compounding interest on a mutual fund

 

[MuscleGod]

@Wcr86 forget the exogenous test for now, it won’t stop the natty test from dropping. so you’re saying if my levels were 1000 today after being shut they’d drop to 2.9ng/DL in 2 weeks, so basically none existent. So why are you saying higher natty levels before cycle will result in higher test levels thru majority of cycle than someone who started with low natty levels?

 

[Wcr86]

Because it compounds on top of it, so as half life drops you are adding more. It’s pretty basic

 

[Wcr86]

Hold on though about that 2.9ng I think I was off. Pretty sure it’s lower actually. Endogenous testosterone has a half life of 4hrs if that helps

 

[rnmuscle]

Mine was 17 total, the lastime i was off more than 6months…1968 I think🏋

 

[MuscleGod]

@Wcr86 not sure what that even means, you can’t compound anything on top of something that’s non existent, sure someone with higher natty test levels might have an advantage but only for the first week into cycle at best, by mid cycle ( when we usually draw blood to check levels ) natty test levels are close to none existent unless you’ve used hcg then the natty test produced would add to the exogenous test.

 

[Wcr86]

Again you are making general assumptions…" Mid cycle when we usually draw bloods"…well most people I think draw 3-4 weeks in and I suppose that could be mid cycle if you are running a very short cycle. I’m done posting on this for now, I have to go work on my car before it gets dark. I am not saying I am 100% right on any of this I am just saying I know you aren’t either I will probably be on later to see what other more experienced people than myself have to say. I will also talk to my doctor about this when I go get my bloods results this week

 

[kingkonggainz]

There is a potential that his post cycle could have been bunk, would explain why bloods were low. Just a theory

 

[MuscleGod]

@Wcr86 even 3-4 weeks into cycle your natty test will be close to none existent unless you’re running hcg etc.

If you’re running very low TRT dose than maybe & only maybe in that case you won’t be completely shut down but with a normal cycle, your natty test along with LH & FSH will drop to close to nothing , its a fact

 

[MuscleGod]

@kingkonggainz agree, wonder if he had bloods taken after he completed pct ? @Jrrezen1995 have you? If it was also low following pct there’s a good chance the pct u ran was bunk, was it pharma grade or ugl ? Always run pharma grade pct & AI, pct isn’t something to fck up if you’re planning to recover your natty levels well.

 

[Wcr86]

Again I’m not arguing this. The original statement you made about the 400mgs should put someone around 2400ng is the real problem here. That is just one person, everyone is going to be different. You can’t even use a sliding scale like you did saying well somewhere between here and here because that still doesn’t work, to many factors come into play with my point just being one factor, obviously another is going to be time of blood draws whether it be the normal of 3-4 weeks or 8 weeks in, it will all matter

 

[Wcr86]

And I’m honestly not trying to start another argument here but after 1 year he should be back up to normal even with no pct. The myth that not running a pct will crash you forever has been debunked by doctors. It is theoretically possible but most of the people that this happened to had other medical conditions

 

[Ironside]

Sorry bro but that’s absolutely not how it works. Once you introduce exogenous testosterone to the body, the body quits producing. Hence your natural testosterone level means squat. The only number at that point that matters is the total dose of testosterone you are taking in weekly. The average mail will net a total testosterone serum of between 4.5 and 5.8x the total dosage on average after a 48hr draw time of using test enanthate. Myself, I typically net 5.4 to 5.6x my dosage. So for average sake I’ll say it’s 5.5x so if my own dosage is say 600mg per week x 5.5 = 3300ng/dl is the ballpark number I suspect i will get from bloods. But you may end up higher or lower and the next guy etc etc… this is my personal findings. That’s how I know that my labs dosing is relatively accurate.