Off gear since last year

[PHD]

@MuscleGod your IQ dropped way before you replied here lol. So what @Ironside was referring to was HIS OWN BODY not saying my should be close or near to what his levels are at that dose. Good fucking god you should change your name to morongod.

 

[MuscleGod]

@PHD Yea what a coincidence, my test levels, his test levels, buddies of mine test levels, all seem to be similar while doing the same dose, give or take 400ng/DL or so…
My IQ definitely dropped after replying you, hope they make a full recovery
I’ll let you have that name, It fits you well

 

[PHD]

Well @MuscleGod I’m so fucking proud of you. Maybe I should have you as my doctor to explain to me why my levels didn’t match yours and your friends and others lol. Ohhhh it’s because I don’t give two fucks it’s obviously working and I place high on national stage so honestly your opinions and theories really don’t mean shit to me

 

[Ironside]

@MuscleGod I was referring strictly to myself as I have done a lot of math based on my own blood tests and manipulation of my dosage week to week. I’ve done consecutive blood tests before following the beginning of a cycle blood test to blood test every week for 4 weeks before just to see what dosage does what, with an AI or without and how much of an AI I need. I’m not a “feel” kind of AAS user. I want cold hard numbers so that method worked for me.

I think that what @PHD is trying to say is there can be a sort of “rule of thumb” but if the numbers don’t fit in that box it doesn’t mean Jack shit because not everyone is going to fit in that box. It’s called medical practice for a reason. Each person is a variable and the dosage is the constant. The key thing to notice there is that the people are the variable. You can have two 300lb people taking the same dose and have 2 completely different results just as easily as you can have a 150lb person and a 300lb person using the same dose end up with the same test serum numbers. There is some consensus that you can use some math from 4.8x to 5.6x the dosage to ballpark your numbers but in the same sense, that range is a range because of the various alterations in testing as well as dosing.

Drawing, aspirating, pinning, timing, test method, to name a few will almost always result in a different test level person to person even if they all claim to be taking the same dosage.

 

[Wcr86]

You know your facts? Lmao you know fuck all bud. Half the shit you said here sounds like it’s coming from a teenagers mouth. I’m done with you on this forum. Have fun trying to get through life with anyone respecting you and not laughing at you when you leave the room

 

[rnmuscle]

Anyone using bmi to dose drugs should have their license revoked and head examined. Children, elderly, renal and liver failure, require adjustments as do morbid obese people. But, not anyone we are talking about here. And definitely not any of the drugs we are talking here.

 

[Islandswole]

@rnmuscle just killed this thread

 

[Raphael3636]

, great thread, this just made my morning!

 

[MuscleGod]

@Ironside True, I’m assuming @PHD had similar results with the same dosage in the past, if that’s the case then that’s what he should expect I guess.
I too have always ran blood work & its always in that 5.5x range as well ( could be 5x, 5.8x etc but always very close to that range) same with several guys I know, & that’s why I said earlier that we should have similar results ( not identical ) which could be up to 400ng/DL or so difference in results, when I read that he ran 400mg/wk & levels were 1,700 ng/DL it just seemed too low for that dosage.

 

[MuscleGod]

@rnmuscle my point was some meds may need to be adjusted based on individual factors lol

@Wcr86 is that what you’re experiencing with your life? & are you sure you’re not the one being laughed at when you leave the room? lmao I wouldn’t be talking if I were you

 

[rnmuscle]

I think all medications should be, especially for outliers like muscle heads and obese. But, no one will spend the money for the 1% that are like us. Not all but most meds have to be affected by our higher metabolic rate, exercise, lots of fluid, and more.

 

[PHD]

@MuscleGod it really doesn’t matter what you think my levels should be at. They are what they are and I do blood work for this reason.

Hell I think my body speaks for itself in how I look that my fucking gear obviously works lol. And my levels work FOR ME!

 

[TG1]

You guys are making my head hurt catching up with this thread lol. Ok so much misinformation here and bro science. I’m going to let you guys in on something a few here know about.

So I’ve done cycles and TRT for over 20 years. I started when around 16 and fucked up my body at a young age. Thus around 18 I was diagnosed hypogonadatropic. I was prescribed test for trt since I was 18 years old. And many heavy and fucked up cycles since then. When I was 21 I saw a fertility doc that said my sperm would never come back and test never return.

That was my go to at the time to just run whatever the fuck I wanted at whatever doses I wanted becuase I couldn’t have kids anyway.

About a year ago I went to a new doc and in my 40s now my test and sperm has returned. So your talking about someone with over 20 years of cycles and TRT. Doc put me on nolva and clomid in high doses and within 3 months my natural test was back. No HCG needed. Proviron taken later and we had to get my estrogen in control as well.

Now recently my fertility doc put me on low dose TRT of 100mg weekly for 6 weeks. Then 8 weeks off and retest. The key she said was low dose test will NOT shut down my natural production and she was trying to get my sperm volume increased. She calculated my dosages based on my blood work and levels on a fucking calculator right in front of me for 15 mins before saying what I needed and for how long.

So for anyone to say that running long cycles and TRT will forever shut you down that’s full of shit. Also that any outside test will shut down your natural test production is also wrong. There’s a science to it and it took me 3 fertility docs and 2 endos to find the one doc that understood it and got my natural test levels back to normal in over 20years of drug use. I’m almost a year off cycles other then gh at times and the test she gave me along with prescribed proviron at times.

Edit to add. My new doc is alot smarter then other docs I’ve been too. She has 3 specialties, speaks 5 languages, known as one of the best in my area and definitely more expensive then the others lol. But you pay for what you get and just because someone is a doctor doesn’t mean they know everything. My old docs in US didn’t know shit compared to my doc now. Docs here proved them both wrong.

 

[rnmuscle]

Your right and they were right. The doctors don’t seem to look at infertility(a good one) the same. In most cases its some form of Azoospermia or semen w/o motile sperm, possibly an injury or condition. Really rare, most of the time we have sperm but not enough good ones. Yes it only takes one but the odds are stacked against it. My child came about after I hit 300lbs on probably my largest cycle to that date, I just moved close to Mexico and QV was coming on strong w/ttokyo and all that shit, I was off 3weeks and using 150mg clomid and nothing else yet. I don’t claim to be very knowledgeable in fertility or infertility but its pretty basic when it comes to testosterone, It affects the count. The other Gonad tropic hormones like FSH have more of an impact. I lost myself here…oh yes! If they treat the sperm motility, shape, whether it even gets out of the Penis(some guys have the porn star shot, some don’t have a dribble) is important but then getting the test levels back to normal or in range is important too. there should be no reason someones Test levels(overall) should be “shut down” forever unless of some other contributing factors. Again, the problem is IMO some men wont get back to pre- cycle levels because they are older and well it matters on where you were at the start. I never even thought about that when I started. I was a big kid naturally, strong and big. Maybe mine was high to begin with. 15 years ago, I decided to stop everything, no PCT, nothing but still worked out hard and my total test was almost 500 at roughly 34y.o after a year and some days. I didnt really think about it then either, Just tore my other tricep the year before, and ruptured my patellar tendon, PCL, MCL. I felt like shit after I healed up and my Doc sent me in for a full workup. TRT wasnt discussed. Then, a kinder Doctor sent me in after a year and gave me some Gel mostly because my free test was really low(below 1%, if i remember exactly) His way was to bring total test up and thus the tiny free test could follow! Kind but dumb, Off course I said fuck it and got back on the Bus…

 

[TG1]

Yeah when I was in my 20s both docs my Endo and fertility doc ran tests and sperm analysis. Obviously Endo looking at blood work and fertility doc checking sperm. But at that point he stated I had zero chance of having a kid and not a single live sperm whatsoever. His exact words were there’s not even a 1% chance I’ll ever be able to get live sperm again and everything was shut down permanent.

When I saw my first Endo here he kinda laughed at it. He was the first one to put me on clomid and nolva. Said it could take up to a year but we would treat for 3 months at a time. I played doctor again and “increased” my dosages a bit lol. But it worked. Test was back. Live sperm were following but they weren’t strong enough to fully work. There was no DNA damage to worry about. All my numbers looked good. Then came the proviron treatments. At first this had a negative effect then bounced back after a bit. My sperm now is active and strong. But my volume is lower which fert doc now says could be because of age and she went with testosterone treatment to increase it. She kept stressing for me not to go above the level she prescribed or for longer or I would shut myself down again.

I have a whole folder full of blood work and sperm analysis reports since I went to get tested almost every 2 weeks this past year. Benefit of living in a country with cheap medical tests.

 

[Wcr86]

Thanks for sharing that. I have told people for years that it is the most rare cases where someone is shutdown forever and when it does happen it’s from some other medical condition

 

[MuscleGod]

@TG Thank you for sharing, I’ve always known people that think any dose trt will shut them down, but I’ve known people that ran low dose TRT of 75mg/wk & never got shut down, FSH & LH were still within normal range, & I’m curious what were your levels at, after the recovery? Before the added 100mg/wk test? Also best of luck on the fertility issue brother