Running cycles and keeping test at trt dose - thoughts?

[Fitraver]

So I found this article when I was researching doing a low dose test cycle (trt dose - say 200-250) and high dose primo. In it, he talks about never ever running his test higher than 200 and then just adding in other compounds (including ones he would not use with low dose test). It’s fairly old, but I won’t lie it sparks my interest. It’s something i researched awhile back as well. It has me very interested. Keeps water retention down, keeps estrogen sides at bay, still stay anabolic, less sides, etc. considering I’m cruising and still loving where I am just on trt, and my goal of super lean growth from here on out and no more bills … i won’t lie it sounds kinda nice.

Any one have experience doing this who can speak to results vs higher dose test with same added other compounds? @SemperFi I know we talked about your primo cycles on trt test. You done it with others?

Oh and here is the article. I have no clue how knowledgeable this guy is or if the book is shit. So don’t judge me on that. The overall thought process I just found interesting. Not to mention it being healthier which as I get older I think about more and more.

Old school cycles for badass results!!! - John Doe Bodybuilding

My ideal look is that of 1970's Mike Mentzer. Of course anabolics become part of the game, but there is a happy medium that can allow both good looks/health

johndoebodybuilding.com

 

[SemperFi]

I run a replacement dose only of Test or 250-500mg/wk regularly on cycle. There are several reason for this, particularly with Tren. My thinking is that when adding other compounds some have a stronger binding affinity than testosterone which leaves more testosterone unused that can be converted to estrogen. Tren is a good example. I also advocate lower doses of every compound than what you see typically being ran because I am looking to maximize the synergy of running testosterone, nandrolone and DHT derivates together. My strategy limits negative side effects and maximizes receptor uptake of each individual derivative (on paper). The end result I believe is a much more productive and responsible cycle.

Remember, I do not compete and I am always looking to build things slowly. Even with my clients. Whether I am bulking, cutting or when I needed to recomp it is done with this mindset. Same goes for diet and training. I have been developing what I want to call a perfected symmetric physique for a long time and I have to say the journey has been very satisfying with absolutely zero health issues associated to steroid use. I am hoping to never reach my ultimate goal because I enjoy the process way too much.

 

[Big482]

I read that article a long time ago myself. Old school bodybuilders didn’t use much test if any slot of times. I have run low dose test(250mg) with 800mg of primo a week. I had pretty good results and no side effects. I have some pics I took after 8 or 9 weeks on that cycle. I will try and dig them up for you.

 

[Big482]

Here are some pics

 

[Bigmurph6]

Looking good brother

Im running that exact cycle now

250mgs test cyp 600mgs primo e
Its going amazing I honestly coudnt be happier with the primo results. I actually woke up this morning and I looked in the mirror and I have said this earlier in my cycle but I can really see why people say that primo creeps up on you. I have been happy all the way through from wk 4 but now holly sh*t has my physique changed.

 

[Bigmurph6]

I really believe that using less testosterone is fine in a cycle and works great especially for a person like me because I get really bad sides from testosterone in higher doses.
I believe running a nandrolone or primo or any compound that can and will shine on its own can be used for a great cycle with lower test.
I have learned that with low test you need to Becareful about estrogen or progesterone levels though.
I believe that gyno can come on quickly if estro levels are high with a lower test level.
Its tricky atleast for me it has been.
Everyone will react different but its different from running high test with a side compound at lower levels. Just like running a high test level there are factors that you need to be aware of how your body reacts to them.

Im will check out the article later. Just my opinion without reading the article yet.
Great post I really enjoy this conversation because it can bring up alot of good information.

 

[Fitraver]

I knew you’d like this post @SemperFi. Sometimes it takes some moments clicking to make some big realizations. I’ve never ran super high test. Just going to 600, but I truly think the next few runs I’m going to keep it just at 250 and let the other compounds thrive.

Do you have a particular reason when you raise up to 500? Does it depend what compound you are running with it? I know some you def wanna have higher test to keep your libido going. I didn’t know if you have a magic number you run with certain compounds.

@Big482 hell yeah man. You looked great there. I honestly think I may run that exact cycle when I use my primo. I really wanna see what primo can do and I think that can best be done with a lower test.

@Bigmurph I forgot you were running lower dose test with your primo. Glad to hear it been going so awesome. I really think that is a good approach to take for my goals now.

 

[SemperFi]

@Fitraver On cycle I run a higher testosterone % when I am adding only one other derivative or using testosterone only, like sust. i.e. Test/Deca. When using three derivatives testosterone % is at the lower level. I rarely go over a weekly total of all compounds of 1g per week and never over 1.2g.

My 2 modified TRT protocols that I have used are listed below-

1. Testosterone 180mg/wk, Primo 100mg/wk, Deca 75mg/wk
2. Testosterone 180mg/wk, Primo 200mg/wk

 

[SemperFi]

You look solid @Big482. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Fitraver]

Okay cool. Yeah I’m thinking of keeping the test at trt doses but still running higher level of another compound. So not really trt protocol, just on the test side of things. It will be for a blast not a modified cruise. I like the bought of 250-300 test and 750 primo. Or 250-300 test and 6-800 eq. I’d like to see how that goes vs 600 test and 6-800 eq/primo.

 

[SemperFi]

I get it and like your idea. I shared my modified TRT just for informational purposes.

Primobolan - Once you have a cycle of it under your belt you might want to see how it works at a lower dose. I found 400mg/wk to be a good ROI.

 

[Fitraver]

You’re right. I think that could be pretty beneficial with no sides.

 

[Bigmurph6]

My 2 modified TRT protocols that I have used are listed below-

1. Testosterone 180mg/wk, Primo 100mg/wk, Deca 75mg/wk
2. Testosterone 180mg/wk, Primo 200mg/wk

I had to say that this is interesting. I have thought about these types of setups for something extended but not longterm meaning at the end of the cycle im running keep something going with the testosterone I would be cruising on.
The primo test low dose is very appealing to me. I have also thought about using pharma grade amps of npp 25mg 3x a wk and 200mg of test cyp. I could see running the primo longterm with trt im actually surprised that this isn’t already being used in eu for trt.
If it is im not familiar with it.

@SemperFi how long did you run the decca for? Did you notice a build up of the decca overtime at once a wk giving you more side effects as time went on? Or did it go really well for you?

 

[Fitraver]

IThat’s a really good question. I’ve never ever ran Deca. Does Deca pair well with primo? Could you run say trt test (259), 6-800 primo and 250 Deca for 16-20 weeks? Idk what’s considered a big dose or small dose of Deca since I’ve never researched it but if the sides could be kept low from low dose deca wondering how that may go for a lean bulk adding to primo.

Would that be enough test to keep your dick working tho on the Deca? Think I read same dose of test to deca is usually good.

Time for me to go google test/primo/Deca cycles lol

 

[SemperFi]

@Bigmurph several months on TRT on several different occasions. I tried 100mg/wk, 100mg/2wks and 75mg/wk. I wasn’t super found of any of them but 75mg/wk appeared to be a good compromise. I have knee, shoulder and elbow issues so I simply used it for the therapeutic affects. I can’t say if it added to the benefits of my joint supplementation. I was merely including it because of the long history and science behind it.

I do know that on cycle I am susceptible to a loss of libido with deca but I never experienced that on a therapeutic dose.

I hope that helps and sheds some light on your questions.

 

[SemperFi]

@Fitraver I have strong opinions about this so I won’t try and over opinionate a response…

I will only say look at the derivative mix and think about how each may compliment each other. I think of it as primary colors… you have an unlimited number of color options depending how they are combined. I add each color based on a specific purpose and not necessarily solely for muscle growth/preservation.

I don’t recommend overthinking it. It will end up driving you bat sh!t crazy… Occam’s Razor!!!

 

[Fitraver]

@SemperFi Are you getting at that a low dose of deca such as 250 would more so only be for joint relief and not do much for the muscle growth part of a cycle adding it to the primo and wouldn’t be too necessary unless you needed the joint support? Or am i way off?

Feel free to eleborate I love to learn. I don’t know too much about the whole taking up receptor space etc if that’s what you were referring to with the doses. Or if you have a link to what you mean about derivatives (how they compliment) I’d love to look at those.

 

[Big482]

But I am a advocate of running test higher than other compounds except at certain times during prep . Testosterone is king in my opinion. You can control sides and if your diet is on point you will see the results.

 

[Big482]

I agree with you 100% running test higher with decca or EQ . I often run 300-350mg test eod with EQ 200mg eod or I have run 250mg test eod with 200mg primo. When you get real primo it gives your physique a very clean , living statue look even at 400mg a week. I think Trt of 150-200mg test with 200mg primo or 100mg decca are great choices.

 

[Big482]

Yes people overthink a cycle to much in my opinion. When you are talking gear 1+1 equals 5 . It’s good to run a highly anabolic substance with a more androgenic substance .