First order from Platinum

[herrubermensch]

This has killed more people than just about anything else. Carcinogens and neurotoxins repeatedly over decades are a disaster.

My dad was an all-conference defensive tackle for SMU during its heyday from 1949 to 1953, playing with Kyle Rote, Doak Walker, Forrest Greg, and many other historic football luminaries. In the days when they didn’t have face masks, and there were no rules designed to protect the players. It was nasty, brutish, and miserable. But my dad had a full ride, so he played and excelled. Packers and Bears both wanted him, but he opted to finish his business degree and go to work for Dynatronics in Florida. This is all by way of noting that he smoked two packs a day for nearly 40 years after he quit playing and had just passed a stress test when he keeled over from a massive heart attack that killed 70% of his heart. He sauntered on for a few years thereafter, not even being able to stay awake during conversations and on enough blood thinners (cumidin?) to kill most people.

It was so senseless. He saw it as a harmless vice, and it killed him. I’ll do a lot of not particularly healthy things, but smoking is malum prohibitum. That and dramatically limiting alcohol intake (e.g., glass of wine or drink every now and then) and not eating a ton of fried or fast food or gratuitous sugar are REALLY EASY WAYS TO STAY HEALTHY, and we should all observe them, particularly while juicing.

Sorry, I’m getting paternalistic in my old age. I’m not sure what @Neuro 's excuse is! HA!

 

[herrubermensch]

I do believe in free will.

Without it, there is no individual responsibility. The two concepts go hand in hand.

 

[Neuro]

My excuse is I’ve watched too many people die to only be in my 30’s.

 

[Poppy]

Clockwork Orange… not but a few of us know what that is.

Brainwashing to take away free will…whether it be good or bad.

 

[Poppy]

In your dad’s defense… like my dad and all those past generations. The dangers of smoking just weren’t there or at least very suppressed.

It was just something everyone did. For some reason I never smoked. Probably because I ised to get very sick as a boy from being around my chain smoking relatives.

 

[Poppy]

They’re dropping like flies around here from drug overdose. Lots of young folks. Shame.

 

[BBSQ5]

This has killed more people than just about anything else. Carcinogens and neurotoxins repeatedly over decades are a disaster.

I think this is a great summary of what needs to be curbed, along with a decent diet, etc. like @herrubermensch stated. I know that the majority of us all want to live way into our 90’s, as long as it’s healthy and not assisted.

 

[TG1]

100mg isn’t going to have the same effect on humans. Compare to bodyweight and structure of mice and humans as well. If that were the case even with 300mg primo then every competitor Bodybuilder would be running it like crazy.

I’ve tried a couple times at different dosages, low and high replacing tren with mast now from2 different sources. I know what the cattle studies say and hoped it work but nah. There no comparison. I hate the tren sides but test and tren is overall better for gains and composition on the body then test and mast. I gotta go back to saying the test tren mast combo is the best imo if your not competing. If so then primo is a great addition.

Long story short from my testing things I’m going back to tren to deal with the sides only during certain months of the year lol

 

[TG1]

I had zero health issues until I stopped taking steroids for couple years lol. Then it was like everything just started falling apart. My doc said he’s seen it before in athletes.

I never smoked but thanks to the US military bs with burn pits I have a lung disease now.

I think the best thing for people is eating whole foods and no heavily processed crap and fast foods. Much of the fast food in Europe tastes different because it’s not allowed to have some of the crap the US allows.

Also in the US you can shop for a week or two at a time and food not go bad. Here every couple days you need to shop. Cleaner food doesn’t store so long.

 

[TG1]

As far as peds… there’s only one from my mid 20’s that’s still in great shape. He quit the sauce all together at about 30. I’m still in contact with him. There’s every bit of a half dozen or so still in the area that I bump into occasionally that overweight obese slobs with a multitude of surgeries under their belt and medical problems. They abused the ole D&D deca and dbol 40 years ago getting “big”.

I will add not a single one competed in anything except the local “gym hero” award.

Here’s my thoughts on this from watching the people around me and my personal life.

You have a time frame you can go on and cycle heavy and then get off and be OK. Like in your 20s if you cycle down in your 30s you’ll be fine.

BUT if you made it a lifestyle for 20 years, then you’re completely fucked when you want off. Your body doesn’t know how to function since it’s been adapted to having all the other compounds to assist for those years. You have to be willing to commit to running cycles or TRT bases for life after that.

Many will quit when they first go off. They are motivated only when on and if off cycle they go off cycle from the gym and their body follows.

If you start late in life you can follow a lower regimen that would be a good benefit long term. But your body will still get used to it. There’s still a lot of bodybuilders from the older generations that look great in their 70s and 80s with zero problems. But you can tell they never got off the steroids. They may have went to lower more manageable dosages but stayed on.

People look at Rich Piana. He took coke like crazy and other rec drugs. John Meadows. Had health conditions since he was younger. Some don’t even know they have anything when they’re on. I didn’t know how off my heart valve was and the issues it could cause and I had that my whole life apparently. Only diagnosed last year.

 

[Ripgut]

majority of us all want to live way into our 90’s,

90…and FUCKIN MASSIVE.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Two of the last of my friends in real life, not online, died recently. Age 49 and age 36. We all took roids. I took the most by far but God is giving me extra time to learn and grow before allowing me to come home. I’ve lost so many bodybuilding friends I’ve lost count. You can do TRT into very late in life. Look at Stallone and Arnold. Just be realistic and save the heavy doses for your youth. I ran very high doses in my early 40’s when I was competing. I never would have dropped my doses if it weren’t for my spine disease. That was a gift from God telling me to wise up. Pain is a great teacher! Listen to your body and be smart because I can promise you when you are suffering in chronic pain all the time nothing is good. Funny thing is I had the stomach flu recently so I stopped using all gear and dropped weight from no appetite and my pain diminished quite noticeably. I also have only eaten clean food 100% since getting over the flu. I’m so grateful to have less pain that I’m going to stay clean on the food, stick to HRT doses, and stay under 200Lbs.

 

[Neuro]

100mg isn’t going to have the same effect on humans.

I said there’s some variation in humans. I think it’s important say in talking to @herrubermensch we’re coming from the same place of low dosing for changes over longer periods of time.

You said it in this thread, it’s about your goals. There’s always variation from rodent studies to humans, we all know that. But we still have to use the data at hand to make our best clinically informed decision. If your goal is to look like Derek Lunsford then no, 300mg of primo won’t cut it.

I’ve always said if you’re wanting the stage or the platform podium then my conservative process isn’t the way. If you wanna still look like a super human male, live a very long healthy life, and prioritize your health- than the growth with 300mg of primo is more than enough. I didn’t say 300mg was going to get you stage ready, and I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear about that.

You and your tren. :roll_eyes: again, goals and perspective. I firmly believe no one has any business running tren that’s not competing. The safety profile just isn’t there in my opinion. As someone that is cruising at 800mg of test I’m not shocked that high dose mast didn’t meet your expectations. But in my case as someone who’s baseline is take as much test as you can without ever needing an AI, and never dose anything high enough to require an ancillary mast will get you exactly where you wanna go- not as fast as tren but it will.

Perspective and goals are the important takeaway in any dosing convo. Which is why I’ve started asking what’s your goal before I give my opinion now!

 

[TG1]

True perspective is always going to be different. I may not feel mast lives up to replacing tren but someone else will. I think mast will just be an addition to my cruise TRT now lol. It’s a great drug but just not that tren feeling and strength.

One thing I think we don’t get into here is the psychological effect and impact being on certain cycles give us. I’m sure that my love for tren falls in this category as well. I’ve said years ago running tren A at high doses can make you feel like a God. In meaning that it’s a constant tightness and strength feeling everyday. The pump feeling much better and more vascular then on other compounds.

In talking about replacement I feel full but flatter on test mast then test tren. But I don’t get the heat issues and have to watch my diet more. And I don’t get winded. Psychologically I don’t feel as good compared to tren. But for someone else that same feeling may vary.

For summer test high tren A can be brutal. Constant night sweats and hell on breathing if playing sports. Especially when going over 1g on tren A. But look incredible. Can be more lenient on diet. So same side effects I like in winter cause I’m not out playing anything in the snow and don’t like cold lol.

I’m married now so I also think my perspective in my goals changed some but how i compare drugs Psychologically hasnt. Like you spoil a kid with a ps5 and then give him an atari to play with instead. I’m no longer in a career where my appearance matters as much as well. But I do take bloodwork more seriously now then I ever did. And adjustments in cycles to me are more serious now then they used to be. If I have to drop something then so be it. I don’t force myself to take shit if I can issues I don’t want.

 

[Neuro]

One thing I think we don’t get into here is the psychological effect and impact being on certain cycles give us

I actually was thinking about this when I said “you just feel good on primo” I think this is a very important thing to take into consideration. Mental health is still part of health. lol and in the icu we don’t care about that too much, are you alive? Did you die? Cool shut up.

Like you spoil a kid with a ps5 and then give him an atari to play with instead.

Im dead hahaha totally understand the point you’re making. And I think it’s actually an important one to make.

 

[Poppy]

The mental thing is a real struggle. I’m thinking it’s more so for the younger men. “Can’t mis a dose OR a workout”… “cuz I don’t want to lose my gains or get small bro”.

The reality is much different…. Missing a dose or a workout is NOT the end of the world.

My own anecdotal experience is me being a lazy ass has probably saved me. Haha

 

[TG1]

I think its different to kids now. You know when we were younger I loved the sport but didn’t want to compete. Because the money wasn’t there. The pros I knew made money from selling gear or sleeping with old rich ladies “clients” in the gyms. Reality was only the top would make it financially and rest were all poor unless doing illegal or unethical things.

I remember going to eat with some pros and they were scrambling for change in their bag. Wasn’t something I looked up too lol.

Nowadays kids can grow a big following on social media and the better they look the more that they’ll make. Endorsements. Selling programs. Supplements. Some still dealing drugs that way.

They have a reason to get more freaky then the next person so they dont want to miss anything. They see it everything they miss is something the next person wont miss. You can thank the guys like David Goggins for that mindset. When social media started and you mentioned steroids you got banned lol. Now you’ll get more views and followers lol.

 

[Neuro]

You can thank the guys like David Goggins for that mindset.

I love goggins. But I don’t celebrate him, unlike most of social media. Oh you gave yourself rhabdo bc you wouldn’t quit? I don’t think that’s impressive I think you’re an idiot.

But I think that’s another good point. In today’s world it can be your job and you never compete. I see younger and younger guys in gear doing whatever it takes to reach that freak level.

 

[Ripgut]

sleeping with old rich ladies “clients” in the gyms.

You guys are always asking what my goals are and that’s it right there…

 

[BBSQ5]

We definitely hijacked this thread about landing his first order with Platinum!

All of this is just truly on point with the way things are going in the athletic sport of bodybuilding or exercise or weightlifting or whatever the heck they want to throw on it with a label.

I find it interesting that everyone at my gym who walks around has a damn backpack with IFBB Pro Velcro patches and they all post working out all day long without really holding down a boring career like the rest of us.

Wife and I also workout at our local AFB gym pretty regularly to try and feel things back in to where you. A see normal fit folks working out for their hour a day before or after work. It’s slightly refreshing.